Pronunciation question -- spin-off of " 'a' and 'an' " thread

Calthrop · 23 Jun 2019

Am prompted by the abovementioned thread, to ask a question concerning something which has been on my mind lately.

The past tense of the verb "to eat": always spelt "ate". However: as to proper, or at least preferred, pronunciation -- opinions are split between two alternatives. Some people favour -- following the spelling convention in so far as there is one -- "ayt" (said like the number between seven and nine). Others favour "et". I am in the "ayt" camp: seem to recall getting indications in childhood that "ayt" was the proper-and-respectable pronunciation, and that it was "uncultured" types who said "et". But I know people with good educations, who take the opposite view -- that "et" is right / proper / used by the right sort of people.

Would be interested to hear from folk on the Forums, how they pronounce this word: and whether they consider their pronunciation the "standard English / right" one; or stoutly say it their way, even if reckoning that the other way is by the general consensus, more correct; or "neither of the foregoing".

RailUK Forums

scotrail158713 · 23 Jun 2019

I’d go with “ayt” because of the ‘magic E’ rule in school

AM9 · 23 Jun 2019

Calthrop said:
Am prompted by the abovementioned thread, to ask a question concerning something which has been on my mind lately.

The past tense of the verb "to eat": always spelt "ate". However: as to proper, or at least preferred, pronunciation -- opinions are split between two alternatives. Some people favour -- following the spelling convention in so far as there is one -- "ayt" (said like the number between seven and nine). Others favour "et". I am in the "ayt" camp: seem to recall getting indications in childhood that "ayt" was the proper-and-respectable pronunciation, and that it was "uncultured" types who said "et". But I know people with good educations, who take the opposite view -- that "et" is right / proper / used by the right sort of people.

Would be interested to hear from folk on the Forums, how they pronounce this word: and whether they consider their pronunciation the "standard English / right" one; or stoutly say it their way, even if reckoning that the other way is by the general consensus, more correct; or "neither of the foregoing".

This is going down the same route as the word 'says'. Is it pronounced:
'sez' or 'sayz'?
I have always used the former but I suspect that it might be a regional issue.

class387 · 23 Jun 2019

Calthrop said:
Am prompted by the abovementioned thread, to ask a question concerning something which has been on my mind lately.

The past tense of the verb "to eat": always spelt "ate". However: as to proper, or at least preferred, pronunciation -- opinions are split between two alternatives. Some people favour -- following the spelling convention in so far as there is one -- "ayt" (said like the number between seven and nine). Others favour "et". I am in the "ayt" camp: seem to recall getting indications in childhood that "ayt" was the proper-and-respectable pronunciation, and that it was "uncultured" types who said "et". But I know people with good educations, who take the opposite view -- that "et" is right / proper / used by the right sort of people.

Would be interested to hear from folk on the Forums, how they pronounce this word: and whether they consider their pronunciation the "standard English / right" one; or stoutly say it their way, even if reckoning that the other way is by the general consensus, more correct; or "neither of the foregoing".

Our teacher seems to get quite annoyed if we don't say 'et'. This seems to indicate that he is correct:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/ate

Busaholic · 23 Jun 2019

I think I used to say 'ayt' but I now say 'et'. With scones, I use both pronunciations interchangeably: the important thing with them is jam before cream, especially on the cheese variety. :lol:

P.S. The real test of a good education is to realise it's 'pronunciation' and not 'pronounciation'.

Cowley · 23 Jun 2019

Busaholic said:
I think I used to say 'ayt' but I now say 'et'. With scones, I use both pronunciations interchangeably: the important thing with them is jam before cream, especially on the cheese variety.

P.S. The real test of a good education is to realise it's 'pronunciation' and not 'pronounciation'.

No.
Don’t listen to these words.
The real test of a good education is to know that the cream goes on first... :lol:

Busaholic · 23 Jun 2019

Cowley said:
No.
Don’t listen to these words.
The real test of a good education is to know that the cream goes on first...

Nah, that way you can't lick half of it off before you present it to someone :lol:

Cowley · 23 Jun 2019

Busaholic said:
Nah, that way you can't lick half of it off before you present it to someone

Animals!

Busaholic · 23 Jun 2019

Cowley said:
Animals!

When in Cornwall, do as the Cornish do!

hexagon789 · 23 Jun 2019

Calthrop said:
Am prompted by the abovementioned thread, to ask a question concerning something which has been on my mind lately.

The past tense of the verb "to eat": always spelt "ate". However: as to proper, or at least preferred, pronunciation -- opinions are split between two alternatives. Some people favour -- following the spelling convention in so far as there is one -- "ayt" (said like the number between seven and nine). Others favour "et". I am in the "ayt" camp: seem to recall getting indications in childhood that "ayt" was the proper-and-respectable pronunciation, and that it was "uncultured" types who said "et". But I know people with good educations, who take the opposite view -- that "et" is right / proper / used by the right sort of people.

Would be interested to hear from folk on the Forums, how they pronounce this word: and whether they consider their pronunciation the "standard English / right" one; or stoutly say it their way, even if reckoning that the other way is by the general consensus, more correct; or "neither of the foregoing".

Ate - for myself pounced as et rhyming with bet. That's the traditional BrE pronunciation afaik, I assume ate sounding like the number 'eight' is generally more AmE. Ate as 'eight' is of course an acceptable variant, very much of the 'eyether'/'eether' for either sort of thing.

hexagon789 · 23 Jun 2019

AM9 said:
This is going down the same route as the word 'says'. Is it pronounced:
'sez' or 'sayz'?
I have always used the former but I suspect that it might be a regional issue.

Definitely sez. Says as sayz (effectively sounding as spelled), is it believe a spelling re-pronunciation where the word is not sounded as spelled but comes to be in time.

For instance 'waist-coat' instead of 'weskit' for waistcoat, 'hand-ker-chief' instead of 'han-ker-chif' for handkerchief and of course...house-wife instead of 'huzz-if' for housewife.

PeterC · 23 Jun 2019

hexagon789 said:
Definitely sez. Says as sayz (effectively sounding as spelled), is it believe a spelling re-pronunciation where the word is not sounded as spelled but comes to be in time.

For instance 'waist-coat' instead of 'weskit' for waistcoat, 'hand-ker-chief' instead of 'han-ker-chif' for handkerchief and of course...house-wife instead of 'huzz-if' for housewife.

For me I may use either ate or et but always sez. For the other examples weskit is archaic and housewife for me is only pronounced hussif when referring to a sewing kit.

ComUtoR · 24 Jun 2019

'Ate' - /ɛt,eɪt/

Is how you say (/sei/) it correctly. You can look up how to pronounce words when using a dictionary. If you still have a paper version, it should have the pronunciations all listed in the front bit. Of course, it all depends on where you live and where you woz 'edumacated' Probably class and upbringing too.

hexagon789 · 24 Jun 2019

PeterC said:
For me I may use either ate or et but always sez. For the other examples weskit is archaic and housewife for me is only pronounced hussif when referring to a sewing kit.

True, the overwhelming majority will use the spelling pronunciations of waistcoat etc, though interestingly the OED still has the older pronunciations of these words when they've dropped them from other words.

Calthrop · 24 Jun 2019

Thanks, everyone, for thoughts on this matter -- to say nothing of that of scones (and let's not get into Scots-and-stones territory

).

AM9 said:
This is going down the same route as the word 'says'. Is it pronounced:
'sez' or 'sayz'?
I have always used the former but I suspect that it might be a regional issue.

My own feeling: it's self-evidently "sez" -- "sayz" seems to me grotesque, or at least (as per you) very regional-dialect -- but that's my sentiment / prejudice, and not necessarily objective truth.

PeterC said:
For me I may use either ate or et but always sez. For the other examples weskit is archaic and housewife for me is only pronounced hussif when referring to a sewing kit.

"Hussif" for me, has likewise always meant a sewing kit (part of a soldier's or sailor's standard equipment?) -- have envisaged a homemaker as pronounced "house-wife", pretty well from time immemorial.

ComUtoR said:
'Ate' - /ɛt,eɪt/

Is how you say (/sei/) it correctly. You can look up how to pronounce words when using a dictionary. If you still have a paper version, it should have the pronunciations all listed in the front bit. Of course, it all depends on where you live and where you woz 'edumacated' Probably class and upbringing too.

(My bolding) -- yes, I think that these are the principal factors: would submit that very often, people tend (with this word, and many others) to say it how they've learned to from childhood, and to hell with "know-all-which-know-nothing" dictionaries !

It would seem that the majority of responders here so far, are "et" proponents. I, and my brother -- who both consider ourselves reasonably well-educated -- say it as "ayt". Presumably the two sides can manage to coexist peacefully...

I have a friend who tends to be somewhat odd as regards pronunciation. He went to a grammar school which was rather strict / old-fashioned/ authoritarian even by the standards of some sixty years ago -- where the staff seem to have been greatly concerned that the kids should come across as respectable, aspiring middle-class types rather than proletarian oiks; which was reflected among other things, in their being extremely "hot" on their ideas of proper English. It seems that this stuff -- taught very dogmatically -- was metaphorically beaten into my friend, to an extent that many decades later, he still regards it as inerrant and infallible. Some of his teachers' ideas on pronunciation appear to have been pretty strange. They seem to have taught that in good "received" English, pronunciation follows spelling -- often, rather than following sense -- much more than in actual fact, it does. They taught "ironclad" rules re all this, and mostly downplayed / disregarded the very many exceptions which there actually are to said rules.

This causes my friend, even nowadays, to pronounce a lot of things rather strangely. For instance, he insists on calling the maritime terminus of the line westward from Chester, "Holy [as in sacred / blessed]-head". The fact that more or less everyone -- except for himself, and the loonies who taught him at grammar school, if any of them are still alive -- pronounces it "Holly-head", just means that more or less everyone is wrong. He (and, for once, very many other people) pronounces the past tense of "eat", as "et". He's told me about how circa 1958, Mr. Whoever-it-was instructed his class that although this word is spelt "ate", the correct pronunciation is "et". A rare instance at that establishment, of someone teaching an exception -- in which, as recounted above, they apparently on the whole didn't believe.

hexagon789 · 24 Jun 2019

Calthrop said:
Thanks, everyone, for thoughts on this matter -- to say nothing of that of scones (and let's not get into Scots-and-stones territory ).

My own feeling: it's self-evidently "sez" -- "sayz" seems to me grotesque, or at least (as per you) very regional-dialect -- but that's my sentiment / prejudice, and not necessarily objective truth.

"Hussif" for me, has likewise always meant a sewing kit (part of a soldier's or sailor's standard equipment?) -- have envisaged a homemaker as pronounced "house-wife", pretty well from time immemorial.

(My bolding) -- yes, I think that these are the principal factors: would submit that very often, people tend (with this word, and many others) to say it how they've learned to from childhood, and to hell with "know-all-which-know-nothing" dictionaries !

It would seem that the majority of responders here so far, are "et" proponents. I, and my brother -- who both consider ourselves reasonably well-educated -- say it as "ayt". Presumably the two sides can manage to coexist peacefully...

I have a friend who tends to be somewhat odd as regards pronunciation. He went to a grammar school which was rather strict / old-fashioned/ authoritarian even by the standards of some sixty years ago -- where the staff seem to have been greatly concerned that the kids should come across as respectable, aspiring middle-class types rather than proletarian oiks; which was reflected among other things, in their being extremely "hot" on their ideas of proper English. It seems that this stuff -- taught very dogmatically -- was metaphorically beaten into my friend, to an extent that many decades later, he still regards it as inerrant and infallible. Some of his teachers' ideas on pronunciation appear to have been pretty strange. They seem to have taught that in good "received" English, pronunciation follows spelling -- often, rather than following sense -- much more than in actual fact, it does. They taught "ironclad" rules re all this, and mostly downplayed / disregarded the very many exceptions which there actually are to said rules.

This causes my friend, even nowadays, to pronounce a lot of things rather strangely. For instance, he insists on calling the maritime terminus of the line westward from Chester, "Holy [as in sacred / blessed]-head". The fact that more or less everyone -- except for himself, and the loonies who taught him at grammar school, if any of them are still alive -- pronounces it "Holly-head", just means that more or less everyone is wrong. He (and, for once, very many other people) pronounces the past tense of "eat", as "et". He's told me about how circa 1958, Mr. Whoever-it-was instructed his class that although this word is spelt "ate", the correct pronunciation is "et". A rare instance at that establishment, of someone teaching an exception -- in which, as recounted above, they apparently on the whole didn't believe.

I wonder what that school would've made of The Chaos!

ComUtoR · 24 Jun 2019

Peter ate an apple. (pronounced as '8')
There was an apple, which was ate, by Peter. (pronounced as....)

This is a crap sentence but it highlights the way in which we use language in speech and language as written word. The second sentence feels very clumsy. What will happen; especially in English. Is that the word will change.

Peter had eaten an apple.
There was an apple, which was eaten, by Peter.

Which sentence is more better... ?

I think people who talk using a more fixed language will also keep to a fixed pronunciation too. I'm a shandy drinking Southerner. Even *worse/better; I'm from South London. My kids find it weird when I speak to my Brother and my entire language and accent changes. When I talk to the kids it switches back. They also complain vociferously about my use of 'long and often technical words' It's like when people use their 'telephone voice'

Consider this. I go to the cupboard and find that my cookies are missing. I exclaim to myself, 'which one of the kids ate (et) the bloody biscuits !' I shout upstairs "which one of you ate (8) the Marylands !?"

Literally; within seconds I change the way I pronounce it.

*delete as appropriate

Busaholic · 24 Jun 2019

Schedule - pronounced 'shed-yule' not 'sked-yule', unless you're a Yank in which case you're excused for obvious reasons. It was the first thing I had drummed in to me when I went for my interview with the Schedules Superintendent at London Transport for the job of schedules assistant. You didn't argue with the SS if you valued your job!

J-2739 · 25 Jun 2019

Haha, have I been saying 'Schedule' wrong my whole life??

scotrail158713 · 25 Jun 2019

J-2739 said:
Haha, have I been saying 'Schedule' wrong my whole life??

Looks like I have

Strat-tastic · 25 Jun 2019

English is Tough Stuff

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough–
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give it up!!!

- Author Unknown

hexagon789 · 25 Jun 2019

Busaholic said:
Schedule - pronounced 'shed-yule' not 'sked-yule', unless you're a Yank in which case you're excused for obvious reasons. It was the first thing I had drummed in to me when I went for my interview with the Schedules Superintendent at London Transport for the job of schedules assistant. You didn't argue with the SS if you valued your job!

Always shed-yool for me, even if practically everyone else my age at school used the "sked" beginning :rolleyes:

Strat-tastic said:
English is Tough Stuff

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough–
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give it up!!!

- Author Unknown

That's an slightly altered version of Dr Gerard Nolst Trenité's The Chaos.

And I don't consider that poem difficult to pronounce in the slightest

Giugiaro · 25 Jun 2019

Well, from the perspective of a foreigner who learned English in public school, I was taught to pronounce "ate" as "ayte", like in "I hate" but without the aspirated "h".
Saying "hate" correctly was harder for us Portuguese students because the "h" in European Portuguese is always mute. So you can get the confusion we caused when we said "I hate that/I ate that"!

hexagon789 · 25 Jun 2019

Giugiaro said:
Saying "hate" correctly was harder for us Portuguese students because the "h" in European Portuguese is always mute. So you can get the confusion we caused when we said "I hate that/I ate that"!

As good a reason as any to differentiate by using 'et'

AM9 · 25 Jun 2019

Another word that seems to be changing is the word 'community' and its derivatives:
community is generally said with the emphasis on the 'U'
communal in my book is with the emphasis on the first vowel, i.e. the 'O', just like the word communist, whereas commuter is on the 'U', yet commutator is back to the 'O'.
Oh ho I love the English language.

Giugiaro · 25 Jun 2019

hexagon789 said:
As good a reason as any to differentiate by using 'et'

Either I'm pronouncing that "et" wrong, or that sounds more Russian than usual.

AM9 said:
communal in my book is with the emphasis on the first vowel, i.e. the 'O', just like the word communist, whereas commuter is on the 'U', yet commutator is back to the 'O'.
Oh ho I love the English language.

Perhaps it may have to do with etymology?

Community comes from the Latin communitas with the same meaning.
Commutator comes from the Latin commutatore, meaning "changer".
Commuter comes from the American English as the name of the holder of a "commutation ticket". Commutation having its origins in the Latin commutatore, as above mentioned.
Communal comes from the Latin commune, meaning "common".
Communist comes from the Latin commune, as above mentioned, to which the "-ist" suffix is added.

PaxVobiscum · 25 Jun 2019

I’m more irritated by “community” having almost universally lost its “t” when uttered by those who use the word the most. Glo’al stops abound.

DynamicSpirit · 25 Jun 2019

ComUtoR said:
Peter ate an apple. (pronounced as '8')
There was an apple, which was ate, by Peter. (pronounced as....)

This is a crap sentence but it highlights the way in which we use language in speech and language as written word. The second sentence feels very clumsy.

Not just clumsy, I'd say the second sentence is plain wrong. It's trying to use the simple past tense ('ate') in a position where it HAS to be the past participle ('eaten'). That's why it's feels clumsy to you.

ComUtoR said:
What will happen; especially in English. Is that the word will change.

Peter had eaten an apple.
There was an apple, which was eaten, by Peter.

Which sentence is more better... ?

For the first sentence: 'Peter ate an apple' and 'Peter had eaten an apple' are both perfectly correct but carry slightly different meanings regarding exactly when the apple was eaten.

For the second sentence, as noted above. It has to be '... which was eaten...' (I might quibble about whether the commas should be there, but that's a minor issue).[/QUOTE]

ComUtoR · 25 Jun 2019

Which was/is my point.

The way we use words change quite fluidly. Especially when compared to written and spoken word. If you have ever read an Irvine Welsh book you can really see how difficult it is to translate 'English' to 'English' :/

I have found it interesting to see my kids grow up and how their language has evolved. They tend to have a more fixed vocabulary. They would have said 'Peter eated it'

Commas I can handle getting picked up on but I was shocked you didn't pull me on the use of the word 'more.' Something, which my kids are using more often.

Giugiaro · 25 Jun 2019

By the way, how is the "t" pronounced in words like "letter" and “later“?

I used to say the “t“ in its hard form like in “test“, but I've learned to say the prior words as “léraa" and "leyraa".

Don't tell me this is Cockney...

Pronunciation question -- spin-off of " 'a' and 'an' " thread

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