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Off Peak Return - with and without Groupsave

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RTID

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I am looking to book a Fare from London Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street. This is a Saturday day return, however I don’t know when I will be coming back, so I’m looking at an open return. In addition, I want to have as much flexibility as possible for the return journey (ie use a VT service if I need to).

I’ve completed a search on Trainline and Chiltern – there is a Off Peak Return @ £226.80 for 4 people on any permitted route. I believe this is a SVR fare.

However , I then see a Off Peak Return @ £149.80 for 4 people using a Groupsave – also any permitted.

Clearly it would make sense to go for the £149.80 fare – however they way that discount Fare is presented on the Trainline and Chiltern site is that you can’t select that fare for the VT service. However as its any permitted – I think it should be valid.

Does anyone have a view if the £149.80 fare would be Valid on the VT Service?
 
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ForTheLoveOf

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I am looking to book a Fare from London Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street. This is a Saturday day return, however I don’t know when I will be coming back, so I’m looking at an open return. In addition, I want to have as much flexibility as possible for the return journey (ie use a VT service if I need to).

I’ve completed a search on Trainline and Chiltern – there is a Off Peak Return @ £226.80 for 4 people on any permitted route. I believe this is a SVR fare.

However , I then see a Off Peak Return @ £149.80 for 4 people using a Groupsave – also any permitted.

Clearly it would make sense to go for the £149.80 fare – however they way that discount Fare is presented on the Trainline and Chiltern site is that you can’t select that fare for the VT service. However as its any permitted – I think it should be valid.

Does anyone have a view if the £149.80 fare would be Valid on the VT Service?
This is the intended functionality. GroupSave discounted tickets are not intended to be used on Virgin Trains services, so you will not normally be offered an itinerary for a GroupSave discounted ticket which features one of their services.

Legally speaking no such restriction is permissible if it is not printed on the ticket (which it isn't), but it will simply cause issues if you try and use it on Virgin so it's inadvisable really.

If you're looking to save money you'll simply have to restrict yourself to Chiltern or West Midlands Trains, with the GroupSave discounted Any Permitted.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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thanks for that. Does that mean the words of Any Permitted Route is then incorrect?
No, it means that GroupSave is an awfully implemented scheme (and one where, legally, the restriction is ineffectual). If properly done, it should be possible for a Railcard to exclude certain companies depending on validity. But the rail industry doesn't care much for explaining this properly and clearly so it doesn't print it on the ticket.
 

CyrusWuff

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It's worth noting that the Any Permitted Super Off-Peak (ticket types SSS and SSR, hence why a GroupSave discount is available) is very heavily restricted, even at weekends.

At the weekend, they're not valid to arrive in London before 1200, nor between 1745 and 2000; and they're not valid to depart London before 1030, nor between 1630 and 1830.
 

IanD

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I'm not a ticketing expert but It looks like the route description for the £149 ticket is incorrect on the Chiltern website as that appears to be 4 x the £50 Off-peak return route "via High Wycombe" with the groupsave discount applied. That's the route displayed if you only ask for 1 ticket. However, it does not list as being valid on any Virgin services (nor WMR/LNR services which would also be available with route Any Permitted, including GroupSave)
 

CyrusWuff

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Having now had the opportunity to check properly: £149.80 is the price for four of the (Virgin-priced) route "Any Permitted" Off-Peak Returns (£37.45 each, reduced from £56.70). The other "Any Permitted" option would be the Super Off-Peak at £23.75 each.

The (Chiltern-priced) "via High Wycombe" Off-Peak Return would be £25.00 each with Chiltern's "Small Group 4" discount (which works the same way as "old" GroupSave, namely 34% discount for a group of three and 50% for a group of four, with up to four accompanying children paying £1.00 each). NB: This discount is not available when there's an event taking place at Wembley. In such cases, you'd be looking at the "via High Wycombe" Super Off-Peak at £31.40 each. (Chiltern don't offer GroupSave on their Super Off-Peak tickets as they're already about 37% cheaper than the Off-Peak).

If you don't mind being restricted to London Northwestern services from Euston, the Off-Peak is £19.80 each with GroupSave.

So to summarise: You could potentially pay as little as £79.20 if you don't mind being limited to only using LNR services. That goes up to £95.00 if you're willing to accept the time restrictions that go with it. The next level up, providing it's not an event day, is £100.00, then £125.60 and finally £149.80.

Think that covers all of the options, assuming it's a group of four adults.
 

IanD

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Having now had the opportunity to check properly: £149.80 is the price for four of the (Virgin-priced) route "Any Permitted" Off-Peak Returns (£37.45 each, reduced from £56.70).

Oh yes, my rubbish calculation! I guess it's not offered on VT services only because VT don't do old-style GroupSave?
 
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