Theresa May Resigns & Conservative Leader Election Discussion

3141 · 21 Jun 2019

I think Field almost certainly got carried away and used more force than necessary. But as others have already indicated we live in a world where there are terrorists who set out to kill, and it becomes difficult to know whether a moderate reaction is all that's required in a situation. Waiting for more information to become available could be a serious mistake. It can only be surmise as to whether he would have acted in a different way if the protester had been a male. A judgement on whether he should resign should wait till more is known.

As to the Boris incident, it's astonishing. His minders will doubtless now warn him that wherever he is the neighbours will have their recorders at the ready and he should only enter detached premises. But although I'd much prefer him not to become the PM, we really do need someone to be in charge in order to sort out the Brexit tangle, if that's possible, and getting on with that is a much more important issue than whether Boris has had a shouting match with his girlfriend.

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Ianno87 · 21 Jun 2019

Most if not all of the papers are running the Boris story on the front pages tomorrow it seems.

Busaholic · 21 Jun 2019

Mark Field should be conversant with dealing with females whom he considers to be annoying: after all, he had an affair with Liz Truss, who many of us consider to be amongst the most annoying of politicians in a very crowded field. The affair is in the public domain, by the way, and has never been denied.

Busaholic · 21 Jun 2019

fowler9 said:
Apparently nothing happened and everyone was safe. The neighbour who reported the incident, a Mr J Hunt, is not convinced.

And just to stick my oar in Field should resign his position. What he did was pretty disgusting and I am convinced he wouldn't have done it if it was a bloke, I cannot prove that of course. If I did that in a similar high profile role in my company and it ended up all over the news and internet I would probably be encouraged to resign if I wasn't sacked first.

I think you'll find the neighbour might have gone under the name of Gove, sometimes pronounced Vine!

mirodo · 21 Jun 2019

BoJo now supposedly seeking an injunction preventing the release of the recording of the incident.

DerekC · 21 Jun 2019

Cowley said:
Good news for Jeremy Hunt, who must be feeling like Christmas has come early tonight...

If he does he may be kidding himself. Mr Johnson seems to be able to do anything he likes and still be loved by the TrueBlues.

Cowley · 21 Jun 2019

DerekC said:
If he does he may be kidding himself. Mr Johnson seems to be able to do anything he likes and still be loved by the TrueBlues.

Indeed. And luckily for him it’s happened at this end of the hustings.
Mind you it’s more than likely that he’ll probably shoot himself in both feet, his hands, someone else’s feet, and probably his own knackers over this next month and still get made into party leader...

DynamicSpirit · 22 Jun 2019

Cowley said:
Indeed. And luckily for him it’s happened at this end of the hustings.
Mind you it’s more than likely that he’ll probably shoot himself in both feet, his hands, someone else’s feet, and probably his own knackers over this next month and still get made into party leader...

I'm pretty sure it would've made no difference if it'd been earlier: Boris's lead in the MPs vote was so great that, realistically, he could have lost a huge number of MPs' votes and still be in the final two going forward to the Tory membership ballot anyway, If this incident had happened a few days ago, he'd still be in the top two in the MPs' bit of the leadership election, just with a smaller majority.

DynamicSpirit · 22 Jun 2019

Ianno87 said:
Most if not all of the papers are running the Boris story on the front pages tomorrow it seems.

Yep, according the the BBC's newspaper roundup everything headlining on the Boris incident, except for the Star, which still has it on the front page, but in a small inset. Daily Express not shown in the newspaper roundup, but a quick check on their website shows it's the lead story there.

The Mail even has a very prominent showing of the words 'Get Off Me Get Out my Flat' directed at Boris.

Which just goes to show... the so-called Tory Press may well be biased in many regards. But they're still perfectly happy to report news that is incredibly damaging to senior Tory MPs when there's good story...

takno · 22 Jun 2019

DynamicSpirit said:
Yep, according the the BBC's newspaper roundup everything headlining on the Boris incident, except for the Star, which still has it on the front page, but in a small inset. Daily Express not shown in the newspaper roundup, but a quick check on their website shows it's the lead story there.

The Mail even has a very prominent showing of the words 'Get Off Me Get Out my Flat' directed at Boris.

Which just goes to show... the so-called Tory Press may well be biased in many regards. But they're still perfectly happy to report news that is incredibly damaging to senior Tory MPs when there's good story...

Boris is the official daily telegraph candidate. Murdoch will hate that

DynamicSpirit · 22 Jun 2019

takno said:
Boris is the official daily telegraph candidate. Murdoch will hate that

The Daily Telegraph is leading on the story as well. And Murdoch doesn't own the Daily Mail! And why would Murdoch hate something the Telegraph are doing anyway?

DynamicSpirit · 22 Jun 2019

AlterEgo said:
Mark Field is an idiot.

The protestor posed no threat whatsoever and it is difficult to see how he could possibly have thought so. She was dressed in a ball gown and was quite obviously there to disrupt proceedings.

He was within his rights to rise from his seat and impede her, but he should never have pushed her into the pillar and should not have held her neck. I don't agree that what he did was "horrific" and feel sure he'd have treated a male protestor the same way, so all the harping along those lines by the victim brigade online can pop neatly back into its box as far as I'm concerned.

Field was clearly very annoyed his evening was about to be spoiled by a protestor and he simply lost his cool. You could see the annoyance and frustration in his face.

I completely agree. Having watched the video, Mark Field was completely over-reacting, and the incident certainly needs investigating. I have a tiny bit of sympathy to the extent that it was obviously a split-second decision, and lots of people do silly things when they have to make split-second decisions, but it was still a violent over-reaction.

But it's also daft to describe the incident as 'horrific'. 'Horrific' is people starving to death or getting burned to death in fires and suchlike. A violent incident involving two people, neither of whom appears to have been injured is not 'horrific'.

In a complete over-egging of the incident, I have an email from Momentum that describes it as not only horrific, but also sexist. That's doubly daft, since there's no reason to suppose the fact that the protester was a woman had anything to do with Mark Field's actions.

Momentum said:
She was there protesting the government's disastrous lack of action over climate change. This violent, sexist behaviour is not acceptable from anyone, never mind a government minister.

We have to remember, this is who we're up against. Entitled, establishment men who think they can pin a woman up against a wall and get away with it.

Typhoon · 22 Jun 2019

Busaholic said:
Mark Field should be conversant with dealing with females whom he considers to be annoying: after all, he had an affair with Liz Truss, who many of us consider to be amongst the most annoying of politicians in a very crowded field. The affair is in the public domain, by the way, and has never been denied.

Indeed it hasn't, the Central Office PR machine went into operation when the local association complained about not being told of the affair directing its flak at them for not Googling her before the selection meeting (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...tie-Turnip-Taliban-fight-soul-Tory-Party.html). Someone wittily coming up the alliterative 'Turnip Taliban' to describe the more traditional members of the local association. I suggest that something similar will happen now with the 'altercation' case - the PR machine will seek to undermine Ms Symonds (not too much, just enough to throw doubt on some of the claims). The Tories can't afford for Mr Johnson not to win. The idea that they seriously think that Jeremy Hunt will get a great deal and defeat Farage, Corbyn, new-Cable and Sturgeon in the following election is too unlikely to risk. No, the minute the MPs defeated Michael Gove, they removed their backstop candidate.

Incidentally, the banner advert on the Mail article is for Scandal, an 'eau de toilette' by Jean Paul Gaultier. How apt!

Tracked · 22 Jun 2019

FelixtheCat said:
It was not a split second. As stated before, the first protestors entered a minute before. They were demanding action on climate change and wearing big sashes with words on them.

He pinned her to the wall by her neck. How much more did he have to do in order to be "John Prescott". Further, being less violent than John Prescott is hardly great. That's like proudly proclaiming to be less smelly than the huge pile of dog turds adjacent.

"little" - Understatement of the year.

He was the only person in the room to react like that. Everyone else just led them out. Nobody except Mark Field felt the need to pin anyone against any walls by their neck.

I'd add that the Prescott incident isn't a great comparison, suddenly having an egg pushed into your head with no prior warning looked a lot different to what happened here. Both obviously unacceptable, but given JP's boxing history you can understand his instinctive split second reaction a little more than MF's "instinctive" several seconds reaction.

Bantamzen · 22 Jun 2019

Cowley said:
Good news for Jeremy Hunt, who must be feeling like Christmas has come early tonight...

I found myself a couple of weeks ago in the position of thinking that Jeremy Hunt was by far the best candidate. Now I find myself actually hoping that he defeats the Boris idiot. What a time to be alive, when Jeremy Hunt is actually the best option for PM..... NOT!!!

Seriously though, these last two incidents (assuming that there was an incident at Johnson's girlfriend's home) & the instant excuse making by their supporters convince me that the Conservative party are not fit for office. Sadly we have an opposition who are equally unfit for office, so a General Election anytime soon could actually see real protest voting taking place & an even worse party run by the odious excuse for a human being that is Farage coming into power. At this point I genuinely fear for the future of this country, especially if the Tory supporters rally around Johnson, which thanks to the almost complete polarisation of British politics post-referendum is the most likely result.

We really need to reboot our political system, does anyone know where the 'Restart' option is...???

DarloRich · 24 Jun 2019

I find it interesting that Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson hasn't explained why the police needed to be called to his girlfriends flat recently. The reports make it sound like a fairly standard domestic argument that I am sure we have all had from time to time.

If he was just a private citizen this would be unremarkable. The fact he is the putative PM means that there is a public interest angle to this. For me it goes to character. Personally I think his past history of incompetence, indiscretion, adultery and denied paternity make him unfit for high office. Surely we have a right to know what went on here so we may judge if his behaviour is something we wish to endorse by voting for him.

PS i find it interesting that journos who have spent a considerable time hacking, bin dipping and publishing long lens shots of nudie celebs have the gall to complain about this alleged invasion of privacy!

Bantamzen · 24 Jun 2019

DarloRich said:
I find it interesting that Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson hasn't explained why the police needed to be called to his girlfriends flat recently. The reports make it sound like a fairly standard domestic argument that I am sure we have all had from time to time.

If he was just a private citizen this would be unremarkable. The fact he is the putative PM means that there is a public interest angle to this. For me it goes to character. Personally I think his past history of incompetence, indiscretion, adultery and denied paternity make him unfit for high office. Surely we have a right to know what went on here so we may judge if his behaviour is something we wish to endorse by voting for him.

PS i find it interesting that journos who have spent a considerable time hacking, bin dipping and publishing long lens shots of nudie celebs have the gall to complain about this alleged invasion of privacy!

Most people in his position would have had a little press statement, with their partner (assuming they were still on speaking terms of course) & explained that they'd had a little too much wine & ended up in a barny. It might not have been the whole truth, but it would at least have been an attempt at manging the situation.

Johnson's lack of explanation either shows his sheer contempt in that he thinks it's not worth dealing with, or that something more serious did take place but one or the other chose not to press for charges. Or maybe both. Whatever the reason he is showing increasingly why he is not fit for office. I'd like to say that Hunt at this point would be the favourite / preferred option, but then I remind myself who will be casting the final votes....

Darandio · 24 Jun 2019

With reports of him seeking an injunction against the recording being made public along with a refusal to take part in a TV debate tomorrow, he's certainly making a Horlicks of his big opportunity.

DarloRich · 24 Jun 2019

Bantamzen said:
Most people in his position would have had a little press statement, with their partner (assuming they were still on speaking terms of course) & explained that they'd had a little too much wine & ended up in a barny. It might not have been the whole truth, but it would at least have been an attempt at manging the situation.

Johnson's lack of explanation either shows his sheer contempt in that he thinks it's not worth dealing with, or that something more serious did take place but one or the other chose not to press for charges. Or maybe both. Whatever the reason he is showing increasingly why he is not fit for office. I'd like to say that Hunt at this point would be the favourite / preferred option, but then I remind myself who will be casting the final votes....

I think nothing beyond a minor domestic argument occurred, perhaps after a drop of wine. We have all been there. What I don't get is why it wasn't dealt with via a simple statement and pictures of the loving couple on the Sundays.

Darandio said:
With reports of him seeking an injunction against the recording being made public along with a refusal to take part in a TV debate tomorrow, he's certainly making a Horlicks of his big opportunity.

Indeed. It seems the words used are not flattering and suggests that he may be something of rich dilettante. I mean, shock horror!

Bantamzen · 24 Jun 2019

DarloRich said:
I think nothing beyond a minor domestic argument occurred, perhaps after a drop of wine. We have all been there. What I don't get is why it wasn't dealt with via a simple statement and pictures of the loving couple on the Sundays.

It possibly was, although his partner's alleged turn of phrase about him being selfish certainly struck a chord I feel!! However his handling of it does not inspire confidence in someone who may soon be running the country. He was far better off dangling from a zip-line waving little flags, some might even say we should have left him there!

takno · 24 Jun 2019

Bantamzen said:
It possibly was, although his partner's alleged turn of phrase about him being selfish certainly struck a chord I feel!! However his handling of it does not inspire confidence in someone who may soon be running the country. He was far better off dangling from a zip-line waving little flags, some might even say we should have left him there!

I have a horrible feeling this is going to the kicking off point for future alternative history novels.

Howardh · 24 Jun 2019

Well he's running away from the Sky debate, just like he ran away the day after the referendum, but wants all the glory (if there is any) now the dirty work's all been done for him over the last three years.

He's a bottler, and the EU will have him for breakfast, he hasn't an answer to anything. If he has, he should go on TV and tell us all.

Typhoon · 24 Jun 2019

Howardh said:
Well he's running away from the Sky debate, just like he ran away the day after the referendum, but wants all the glory (if there is any) now the dirty work's all been done for him over the last three years.

He's a bottler, and the EU will have him for breakfast, he hasn't an answer to anything. If he has, he should go on TV and tell us all.

They should go ahead without him. There is a precedent. Tub of Lard? The responses will be just as relevant as those from the absent candidate, just a whole lot briefer!

Howardh · 24 Jun 2019

Typhoon said:
They should go ahead without him. There is a precedent. Tub of Lard? The responses will be just as relevant as those from the absent candidate, just a whole lot briefer!

As mentioned on Twitter, the only ones who have a right to silence are the accused!

krus_aragon · 24 Jun 2019

krus_aragon said:
I can easily see that seat [Brecon & Radnorshire] returning to Lib-Dem hands in the by-election, given how well the Conservatives and Labour did in other elections this year. (The corresponding Assembly seat's been held by the Lib Dems' Kirsty Williams since 1999.)

That'd leave the Conservatives' majority on a knife edge: 311 CON + 10 DUP = 321, out of a house of 642 (disregarding Sinn Fein abstenionists and the Speaker)

Reports now that Plaid Cymru and Change UK are considering forming a Pro-EU pact, and put forward no candidates for this by-election (in support of the Lib Dems): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48742981

DerekC · 3 Jul 2019

I have just seen a Nasty Party member on TV say that "anything that can be said against Boris Johnson now could have been said about Churchill in 1939". Although playing right up to Johnson's self-image, it's absolute rubbish. The man obviously has no knowledge whatever of history. Churchill had his downside, but one thing he didn't do was to say whatever he needed to say to get himself elected. His pronouncements against fascism and warnings of war were deeply unpopular both with his party and the general public right up to the actual outbreak of WWII.

edwin_m · 3 Jul 2019

And of course Churchill having lived through WW2 saw what eventually became the EU as the best way of preventing a repeat.

Typhoon · 3 Jul 2019

DerekC said:
I have just seen a Nasty Party member on TV say that "anything that can be said against Boris Johnson now could have been said about Churchill in 1939". Although playing right up to Johnson's self-image, it's absolute rubbish. The man obviously has no knowledge whatever of history. Churchill had his downside, but one thing he didn't do was to say whatever he needed to say to get himself elected. His pronouncements against fascism and warnings of war were deeply unpopular both with his party and the general public right up to the actual outbreak of WWII.

I'm afraid that FoBs have been rewriting history throughout this campaign, particularly related to his term as Mayor of London.

Regarding the underlined point, you could argue that Churchill was principled while Johnson is unprincipled.
I know that a biography of Churchill ('The Churchill Factor' - available for £5.99 or less) claims the contrary as he switched Tory to Liberal to Tory but the Liberals of the 1900s were far from the Liberal Democrats of today and it was on a point of principle (free trade). You are absolutely right about Churchill and fascism (and antisemitism), he held the views for almost ten years before the war began alongside very few on the government or opposition benches; you will be lucky to find many views that the other gentleman has held for more than ten weeks (except his desire to be Prime Minister). Churchill would have been first out of the door at the Chequers summit, not waited a couple of hours after others jumped ship. The only Churchill that Mr J resembles is the one to be seen on your TV screen in the interlude between programmes. Oh, yes!

FoBs = friends of B@^!$

Geezertronic · 4 Jul 2019

I really don't understand why Conservative leaders/ leadership contenders have to reopen the Fox hunting debate. May mentioned it during her leadership campaign and Hunt has mentioned it as part of his. Why a barbaric "sport" should be entertained to be made legal again is beyond me and hopefully many of the normal people out there too. Hunt is definitely a Hunt with a capital C for even mentioning it...

Cowley · 4 Jul 2019

Geezertronic said:
I really don't understand why Conservative leaders/ leadership contenders have to reopen the Fox hunting debate. May mentioned it during her leadership campaign and Hunt has mentioned it as part of his. Why a barbaric "sport" should be entertained to be made legal again is beyond me and hopefully many of the normal people out there too. Hunt is definitely a Hunt with a capital C for even mentioning it...

I think the main reason would be to get the “Tory Faithful” to vote for him over Boris.
That’s the crowd that these two are playing to at the moment.

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