Bertie the bus
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It has confirmed it plans to start running then. As we all know TOCs confirming they plan to do things isn't the same as them happening.
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Alliance Blackpool service to be run by Grand Central and start in 2021
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The 1900 arrival at Euston looks like it clashes with the Up Liverpool 'Business' stop at MK, hence was the standard call doesn't work: http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/P58155/2019-07-16
The 2038 arrival at Euston is a non-standard path compared to the others, and quite close to the 9Mxx call (Edinburgh-Brum-Euston), so probably just doesn't work if it did, i.e. needs to 'keep going' to stay in a path the whole way by staying in front of the 9Mxx.
I see that despite ORR approval, the usual RailUK cynicism about open access operations has started already.
Well if they're going to be recruiting as per the press release then it must be pretty serious. Also the timetable is there and it doesn't say proposed timetable as far as I can see so they have perhaps had that confirmed now?
One assumes they've agreed a lease on the stock but it's a shame they haven't confirmed that either way?
One assumes they've agreed a lease on the stock but it's a shame they haven't confirmed that either way?
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
They are missing all the stops between Nuneaton and Preston, notably Crewe, so the flow won't be as large as it could be.
London-Preston is half an hour slower than the franchised service (probably not VT by then), usually leaving 3 minutes earlier.
The ICWC Blackpool services are similarly much slower than the Glasgows.
hexagon789
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Hopefully they do. Seems to keep getting put-back, rather like Grand Central themselves.
TheGrew
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Yeah I agree, I am surprised they don't stop at either Warrington or Wigan if they did I suspect many including myself from Manchester/Liverpool areas would be tempted to use them.
Bletchleyite
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Might also want to consider the X5.
hexagon789
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Possibly they aren't allowed to because Virgin serve both those places frequently?
Kendalian
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It will be interesting to see what the fares will be on the early morning Blackpool departure (from Preston especially), given the extortionate prices Virgin are able to charge at the moment!
irish_rail
Established Member
Will be interesting to see how they crew this with the turnaround times at Euston not sufficiently long for a pnb plus mobilisation time etc if train being driven in from Blackpool. That is unless they are also planning to base drivers at Euston? Or am I missing something here???!!!!!
If they can stop there, surely they can stop at Leyland?
The Planner
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Ian pretty much answered it, if the GNWR is departing Nuneaton at 1752 it has the Liverpool right up its behind running at 125mph vs 110mph. The Liverpool stops at MK so the GNWR has no hope of not ruining that Virgin path, putting it in 5 won't help as it would be coming on to a red at the end of the platform and will knock the Virgin again. Even if you did get it into 5 you then wouldn't get out before the Manchester runs you down and you would end up with a good 10 minute dwell. I suspect the later one is also getting run down by the Liverpool too.
It would take 3 hours on the buses against an hour in the car from home and the first bus would miss the first northbound train. Definitely an option for journeys later in the day though.
Shortest weekday turnrounds are 32-33 minutes, and one train on a Saturday in 29 minutes.
Meanwhile over at King's Cross, one Sunderland per day manages it in 25 minutes.
It’s gonna have to be slow lined at Nuneaton looking those times. Seeing as I’m going to be passing that train yet stopping at Keynes.
irish_rail
Established Member
That cannot be the same driver though?? And if turnaround is on average 32 mins (take away 10 minutes walking time and I would guess 10 minutes to mobilise the train that leaves just a 12 minute PNB if train is on time. And that is with by the looks of it a drive of around about 3 hr 10 each way, surely never going to get that through, it wouldn't come close to being safe. I do similar amounts of driving Plymouth to London with a minimum PNB of 30 minutes plus walking time and mobilisation etc adding up to an absolute bare minimum of 45 mins and that's if you are on time!
The Planner
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Might not, your Liverpool is 5 minutes behind it at 1757 it could probably just about keep in front. Id be willing to bet the Liverpool gets time added in approaching Euston.
TheGrew
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Virgin don't call any more (2tph) often than at Preston where the service will be making a stop. Part of me would selfishly love them to stop at Newton-le-Willows which would open new direct connectivity but I suspect pathing that may be an issue.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I feel as though they aren't calling at Wigan or Warrington because they aren't allowed to though. Surely they would if they could but can't for competition reasons.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It would probably cost 10 minutes to loop via Newton le Willows, and with 5 conflicting junctions to navigate - or is it 6?
However it opens up a direct flow between Milton Keynes and Preston with connections on from there surely? How would a journey from Milton Keynes to Glasgow, changing from a GC at Preston onto the express Glasgow Vs going direct via the West Midlands compare?
It would bound to be put back because class 91s and mk4s which their bid was based around had not been released from LNER. So it was a dead cert it would at least be delayed until then.
An open access operator has to adhere to rules on their services being not primarily revenue abstractive. I.e. they have to prove its more about opening up new journey opportunities and creating new footfall than it is stealing someone else's .The stops applied for probably reflect that and putting Crewe in may have failed the not primarily abstractive test.
Perhaps the driver has a 90 ish minute break at Euston and gets 'the next one' back to Blackpool rather than the first one. The press release mentions Blackpool train Crew.
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hexagon789
Veteran Member
I appreciate that, but everything went very quiet for some time that I thought they'd actually given up.
That's what I was thinking of, they have gone with the stops that were felt not to take revenue away from VT.
Yes I thought they'd died out again as well! Still, isn't their a rule from Roger Ford (of Modern Railways) about how reliable the use of seasons as a marker of when something is due to happen in a railway context?
irish_rail
Established Member
That would only work on one or two services, for example the 1501 arrival if the driver is to get a break would have a 4 and a half hour break at London which all in all gives an extremely long day. Again I'm not convinced this will work and think there will need to be another depot at London.. .
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Not just me then!
Still, isn't their a rule from Roger Ford (of Modern Railways) about how reliable the use of seasons as a marker of when something is due to happen in a railway context?
As in a particular season usually means a new train operator will or won't die out or something?
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