Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't think you could really accuse the WCML of that, particularly now LNR have shown willing to cough up to get the 350/2s out a bit more and reduce the amount of 4-car running substantially.
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Alliance Blackpool service to be run by Grand Central and start in 2021
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I don't think you could really accuse the WCML of that, particularly now LNR have shown willing to cough up to get the 350/2s out a bit more and reduce the amount of 4-car running substantially.
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irish_rail
Established Member
Sorry I meant the rest of the network just that the wcml may be catching up now!!
It'll be interesting to see what fares for GC from Milton Keynes to Blackpool will be like. For my last journey to/from Blackpool last week, I travelled with LNER and Northern via Leeds and the Calder Valley, as while it takes nearly 5 hours each way, it is a lot cheaper than travelling with Virgin Trains from Euston or Milton Keynes Central. If GC offer fares at a similar cost to those via the Calder Valley, I may consider for my 2020 trip to Blackpool using the X5 to MK and travelling with them instead.
One added benefit with GC being that I can continue travelling on a 91/Mk4 service
I have no definitive information to back this up, but personally I'm sceptical about the 91 part of the operation.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
What else is going spare to be used? 90s? Diesels?
Although not my preference (see user name), 90's would make more sense to me.
More versatile, more reliable, quicker acceleration, and in the case of the DB examples not exactly stretched - especially given the end of the use of up to 3 examples by LNER as well as 90034's role as carriage heater at Ilford soon to end once the new GEML fleet of units commence operations.
As I said, no evidence whatsoever to back it up, just a hunch.
theblackwatch
Established Member
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Does Grand Central still have a policy that it's ok to buy on board? If so, that could be quite amusing at Blackpool North 
Interesting, but hasn't track access only been granted for 91s? I suppose it depends on how easily the two could be substituted without impacting on timings.
adrock1976
Established Member
The 1141 Euston-Blackpool on a Sunday takes a fair while to get from Preston to Kirkham...
Is it actually meant to depart London at 11:41 or 12:41?
Part of me has an inkling that it would be 12:41 as I believe the two track Sunday timetable between Euston and Rugby ends at around midday if I am not mistaken.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
I gotta feeling that the Mk4 rolling stock and even the Class 91 locomotives will not be able to stand upto the rigours of the West Coast mainline.
The Mk4s were never a good riding vehicle, on the WC i think they will fare badly.
Class 91s were never that reliable although they went through a reliability program with Virgin.
Ex Greater Anglia Class 90s available perhaps from next year. Not sure if Freightliner want them.
Also Blackpool North to Queens Park, limited stops, doesn't make a lot of sense.
The Mk4s were never a good riding vehicle, on the WC i think they will fare badly.
Class 91s were never that reliable although they went through a reliability program with Virgin.
Ex Greater Anglia Class 90s available perhaps from next year. Not sure if Freightliner want them.
Also Blackpool North to Queens Park, limited stops, doesn't make a lot of sense.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Well presumably some drivers are going to have to be based at London (or get put up overnight) anyway. Otherwise, who's going to drive the 07:36 from Euston, or the 20:38 into Euston (Mon-Fri)?
For dealing with the short breaks at Euston... Could you solve some of those with a driver changeover at Milton Keynes? For example on Mon-Fri:
- Driver 1 does 08:10 Blackpool North, arrives Milton Keynes 11:11. Has break then drives 13:10 train back to Blackpool
- Driver 2 does the same thing a couple of hours later: 11:50 from Blackpool, arrives Milton Keynes 14:24, then takes the 16:11 back to Blackpool.
- Driver 3 Takes the 11:11 from Milton Keynes to Euston then the 12:33 back to Milton Keynes. Then takes the 14:24 from Milton Keynes to Euston and the 15:33 back to Milton Keynes. In other words: S/he drives the Milton Keynes-Euston bits of both Driver 1 and Driver 2's trains, allowing those drivers to get a long enough break.
(Except that won't work for the evening trains that don't stop at Milton Keynes.)In terms of timings I believe a 90 could achieve the times posted earlier in this thread a day or so ago - as you say, see what happens.
Silver Cobra
Member
Definitely, seeing as LNER hired in 2-3 90s to haul Mk4 sets while some 91s were undergoing maintenance or out of commission due to damage.
adrock1976
Established Member
They have substituted for 91s on a couple of Kings Cross - Leeds workings in recent times.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
They were with LNER. Not sure if it's certain modified Class 90s though.
DB 90s just gone off lease with LNER.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Things have moved on a bit.
Queens Park will not be used as there are paths into Euston available now.
dk1
Veteran Member
Perhaps this route would be an ideal home for the GA379s or LM350s that will be surplus & 110mph capable.
MylesHSG
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90's would probably make more sense than 91's.
There's certainly 90's going spare once GA start replacing their loco hauled services also a couple 90's used by CS won't be compatible with the Mk5's (as well as the 86's and 87) so they'll be looking for a new home.
There's certainly 90's going spare once GA start replacing their loco hauled services also a couple 90's used by CS won't be compatible with the Mk5's (as well as the 86's and 87) so they'll be looking for a new home.
I guess if they want to create a 'proper InterCity' type of train experience then hauled mark 4 stock is the way to go.
350/2's with the high density 3+2 seating would be far from ideal, 2+2 seaed 379's would be better but still below par compared to a mark 4.
dk1
Veteran Member
Obviously it would have to be 2+2 in standard but they are perfectly reasonable units especially if GC are going to offer cheap & cheerful advance tickets.
dk1
Veteran Member
Two GA 90s are already spoken for & FL are eying up several.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Did not realise that paths had been found for Euston. What with the loss of platforms 17/18 and more LNR services.
It can all be very tight now at times.
EE Andy b1
Established Member
Greater Anglia have 15 Class 90s going begging from 2020. Locomotive services at Crewe are having 2 Class 90s, Freightliner might want some but maybe not all 13.
How many 90s or 91s would GC actually need for the Blackpool service?
DavidCarbonis
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The ORR's decision letter states that GNWR proposed to acquire 4 225 sets (with the option for a 5th), so I suspect at least 4 Class 91s (or Class 90s) if not a couple more!
James90012
Member
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3 short sets with Wales, 4 with GC. One would hope that Eversholt will keep the remaining sets in warm storage for the next few years at least.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Yes.
Any Electric Train Supply-equipped 90 can. Theoretically any loco equipped with Time Division Multiplex (TDM) push-pull equipment could.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Theoretically, any loco with a buckeye can haul MK4's.
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