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TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

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sjpowermac

sjpowermac

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I missed the point at which this became the ‘TPE decide not to introduce Mk5a’ thread...

And to think, I had lots of negative comments about reporting driver training moves and Fault Free Running:'(

I’ve not really followed the 80x trains with any interest, I couldn’t care less about units. Were they delivered on time and without fault to GWR? I know the LNER ones are about a year (?) late and Network Rail have had to engage in some significant signalling work for the trains to operate. I don’t remember reading any comments about 80x being canned when they were late into service ...
 
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Bantamzen

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sjpowermac said:
I missed the point at which this became the ‘TPE decide not to introduce Mk5a’ thread...

And to think, I had lots of negative comments about reporting driver training moves and Fault Free Running:'(

I’ve not really followed the 80x trains with any interest, I couldn’t care less about units. Were they delivered on time and without fault to GWR? I know the LNER ones are about a year (?) late and Network Rail have had to engage in some significant signalling work for the trains to operate. I don’t remember reading any comments about 80x being canned when they were late into service ...
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There is sometimes a tendency for negative news / rumours / Chinese whispers to be seized upon more than the positive on forums & social media (and not just Rail UK by the way). And whilst as a passenger it's seriously disappointing not to have the 68 + MK5As in public use because of issues between TPE & the suppliers, this is hardly something new with new or even repurposed stock across the UK's network. Practically every unit that has been built, seen some refurbishment, or traction change has had issues along the line. I think this has led to a default position of "Bad News = Very Bad News", and "Good News = Something's Bound To Go Wrong Soon".

Its very hard to imagine that this close to getting this particular stock out into revenue service, TPE would throw the towel in & hang on for a bolt-on 802 order which they wouldn't see for months or even years. Now if issues remain with the MK5A for years (which in all seriousness I doubt), then maybe they might start to replace them with 802s once production line space is available. But TPE need capacity now, and the MK5As are still fairly close to being able to offer at least some of that, even if it is 2 or 3 sets to start off, with additional ones coming on line later in the year when crew training can take place.
 
EE Andy b1

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Just makes me wonder have CAF got enough staff working on the Mk5a project, what with all the other projects ongoing.
Maybe they have just taken on a bit more than they could cope with, with all these various types of rolling stock coming into service at the same time.

This was what looked like a great but unexpected project from the start, what with having Locomotive hauled Coaching Stock. Passenger wouldn't be bothered what type of train they travel on, i'm sure, but the enthusiast in us were looking forward to a little resurgence in loco hauled stock, in a very plastic railway of today.

I do hope that TPE continue with the Mk5a sets.

So come on CAF even with all the delays, get these sets into service asap.
 
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Bantamzen

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EE Andy b1 said:
Just makes me wonder have CAF got enough staff working on the Mk5a project, what with all the other projects ongoing.
Maybe they have just taken on a bit more than they could cope with, with all these various types of rolling stock coming into service at the same time.

This was what looked like a great but unexpected project from the start, what with having Locomotive hauled Coaching Stock. Passenger wouldn't be bothered what type of train they travel on, i'm sure, but the enthusiast in us were looking forward to a little resurgence in loco hauled stock, in a very plastic railway of today.

I do hope that TPE continue with the Mk5a sets.

So come on CAF even with all the delays, get these sets into service asap.
Click to expand...

I suspect as does someone else up-thread that all the manufacturers have under-estimated the levels of support needed, particularly for the initial testing periods through to being in full revenue service for some time.
 
squizzler

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First will not cancel their Mk5 order, of that I am quite confident. It is more usual in such situations that CAF would throw in some extra coaches as has happened with some other train orders that have taken excessive time to fulfil. I think the IC4 of Germany was one such case this happened. So perhaps we shall see longer rakes than expected?
 
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samuelmorris

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squizzler said:
First will not cancel their Mk5 order, of that I am quite confident. It is more usual in such situations that CAF would throw in some extra coaches as has happened with some other train orders that have taken excessive time to fulfil. I think the IC4 of Germany was one such case this happened. So perhaps we shall see longer rakes than expected?
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That's difficult as everything's set up for trains of a certain length, so normally they'd just provide, for example, one extra set. There's a precedent for that with the 357s for LTS many years ago. However, CAF are only providing the coaches here, an extra set would need an extra loco from Stadler to pull it!
 
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samuelmorris said:
That's difficult as everything's set up for trains of a certain length, so normally they'd just provide, for example, one extra set. There's a precedent for that with the 357s for LTS many years ago. However, CAF are only providing the coaches here, an extra set would need an extra loco from Stadler to pull it!
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Yes and no - it could be kept as a spare set to increase reliability.
 
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Roast Veg

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And no doubt once DRS have their newer locos delivered, the other converted 68s that work mixed duties could be leased to TPE on a more permanent basis.
 
BMIFlyer

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EE Andy b1 said:
I do hope that TPE continue with the Mk5a sets.
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TPE are not ditching the MK5A sets. There is a small software issue currently being dealt with. As the MD stated earlier this week, the trains are still going to enter service "in the summer".
 
Ih8earlies

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Quick question going back on topic.

How does the spare DT get tested and accepted?

Will it be swapped into a full set for FFR or can a 68 be attached just to a DT?
 
sjpowermac

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BMIFlyer said:
TPE are not ditching the MK5A sets. There is a small software issue currently being dealt with. As the MD stated earlier this week, the trains are still going to enter service "in the summer".
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I have been really impressed by the Nova 3 sets I’ve seen at York.

Best wishes to all involved in their introduction, I hope the sets clean the floor with 80x and some extras get ordered:)
 
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68011

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68025 currently working 15:33 Bletchley - MID however it's reported to be with set TP04, yesterday it was out with set TP11.
 
EE Andy b1

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Erniescooper said:
It’s definitely 11
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Are the 3 roads for TPE use in the Up sidings at Longsight Traincare still out of use or have they now been accepted for Nova 3 stabling?

Also when is that Mk5a set in the X shed at Longsight going to get a run out? Don't think it's ever moved since arrival.
 
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cce

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Seems to be some of these at Bristol Barton hill right now. Probably linked to the ROG 37 that's sitting in temple meads?
 
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978wta

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EE Andy b1 said:
Are the 3 roads for TPE use in the Up sidings at Longsight Traincare still out of use or have they now been accepted for Nova 3 stabling?

Also when is that Mk5a set in the X shed at Longsight going to get a run out? Don't think it's ever moved since arrival.
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Not sure about the sidings but I was informed that the set in the x shed has had many parts removed from it so it’ll probably be the last set to be commissioned.
 
507 001

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I get the impression (and this might be complete hokum) that the CAF engineers are quite laid back....
 
LNW-GW Joint

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BMIFlyer said:
TPE are not ditching the MK5A sets. There is a small software issue currently being dealt with. As the MD stated earlier this week, the trains are still going to enter service "in the summer".
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First Group (ie TPE's parent) is in no position to place new orders for rolling stock given the financial position of TPE itself and the Group.
Extracting yourself from a rolling stock order is a difficult, long-term task, c/f Fyra.
The only flexibility will be how First Group handles the overall class 802 order, as they could indeed switch units between TPE, Hull Trains, the new Edinburgh services and even GWR - but at some cost to any TOCs deprived of stock to help TPE.
Having "purchase options" isn't helpful if you can't afford to buy them.
I can't see the DfT playing any part in letting TPE off the hook on the commitments they made in the franchise agreement.

Meanwhile there is a huge amount of CAF rolling stock languishing in depots all over the north, earning nothing for either manufacturer, ROSCO or the two TOCs.
 
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Solent&Wessex

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samuelmorris said:
That the word from on high isn't always correct. I'm sure that 'in the summer' is what's intended, but it doesn't mean it'll necessarily happen in practice.
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BMIFlyer said:
TPE are not ditching the MK5A sets. There is a small software issue currently being dealt with. As the MD stated earlier this week, the trains are still going to enter service "in the summer".
Click to expand...

Only around 8 or 9 weeks left of Summer, and with the training of Instructors not even commenced yet, and the 802s arriving shortly, and the 397s fairly important because of the 350 issue, I fear that "entering service" will probably be very similar to when the Mk3s "entered service" at the last possible minute to tick a box - although hopefully this time the box ticking exercise will then be followed with introduction in a timely manner thereafter, although I fail to see how TPE would be able to resource all the training of staff across all grades on 3 sets of new trains at pretty much the same time.
 
sjpowermac

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Solent&Wessex said:
Only around 8 or 9 weeks left of Summer, and with the training of Instructors not even commenced yet, and the 802s arriving shortly, and the 397s fairly important because of the 350 issue, I fear that "entering service" will probably be very similar to when the Mk3s "entered service" at the last possible minute to tick a box - although hopefully this time the box ticking exercise will then be followed with introduction in a timely manner thereafter, although I fail to see how TPE would be able to resource all the training of staff across all grades on 3 sets of new trains at pretty much the same time.
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I think it probably wouldn’t require that many drivers and onboard staff to be trained up to work the diagram below. It would certainly make a nice gentle ‘low stakes’ entry into service, as well as serving a definite need for extra capacity on a summer Saturday...

Oh, and a nice treat for ‘the bash’. Come on TPE, how about it? And if you need anyone extra for a ‘pre-service launch’, give me a shout;)
68011 said:
some Saturday paths in from 22nd June to the 7th September....whether they will run or not is anyone's guess

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03042/2019/06/22/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03045/2019/06/22/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03043/2019/06/22/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03047/2019/06/22/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03044/2019/06/22/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03048/2019/06/22/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03046/2019/06/22/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y03049/2019/06/22/advanced
Click to expand...
 
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