Can someone explain if anything ever happens to the track that is removed when new track is laid It seems that on most routes there is a growing mountain of old track, some left at the trackside some between the rails. Does it ever get collected and recycled?
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Scrap track?
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hexagon789
Veteran Member
I'm sure Network Rail recycle some old rails, I think they even have some facilities for that specific purpose.
pdeaves
Established Member
Yes, Whitemoor primarily (also Westbury and somewhere else I cannot remember).
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Any idea how much they can recover?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Sigh. May i ask an honest question: Do you honestly think none of this material is collected and recycled?
https://www.networkrail.co.uk/stori...-railway-materials-at-our-whitemoor-facility/
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Sometimes it's relaid on another line with lower usage. There's a section of CWR on the Conwy Valley Line (I forget where) which I understand came from the Woodhead line.
Sleepers from renewal sites are all carted off to recycling, and graded. Those that are suitable for reuse on secondary routes or (more usually) in sidings are stored and then ‘sold’ when required. Sleepers not in suitsable condition, which is most of them, are chipped (timber) or crushed (concrete) and the end products sold on. Fittings to sleepers are similarly reuse s if in good nick, but most clips etc just go straight for recycling.
Rail is usually scrapped. Usually it is cut up on site prior to removal, the exception is the high output machines which thimble it out in full length. If the latter is to be reused it has to be ultrasonically tested for defects, have them fixed, and then th rail must be picked up and transported to where it is next needed. The effort (ie cost) of doing this meant that it didn’t make much sense, particularly with the cost of new steel so low. However I heard that there has been some of this happening recently.
The ‘scrap’ rail and sleepers that are often seen lying around are often actually spares placed deliberately. If you have a defect to fix then it is a lot quicker if you only have to shift a piece of rail or concrete sleeper half a mile on a trolley rather than cart it from the nearest depot.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Much more polite than I am prepared to be these days!
Worth noting that the pressure of resource, access & handback drive some bad behaviours at times. It is also hard to get back in to pick stuff up after the job has been closed down
Quite so. If the job is running tight the first thing to go is picking up the old stuff. And it is much easier (and cheaper) to do a ‘campaign’ clear up every couple of years on a given stretch of track. When I was on renewals we always ended up leaving our sites spotless, and we cleared up the last few years’ worth of maintenance detritus as we went. If I had a quid for every spent cutting disc we’d picked up I would have retired by now.
That reminded me of an occasion a couple of years ago - Network Rail were assessing a welder rebuilding a point blade with weld and grinding the profile in situ. They were allowed to use a worn point ata preserved railway in Scotland, and when finished the work during the day, with a total block on movements in the yard and no running service, they still managed to leave worn grinding discs lying around. I think it must have been part of the training??
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
I recall going out to a plain line derailment "somewhere in the Welsh Valleys" - a 37 going rather more than the 15 mph allowed ,on a bend , hauling 2 brake vans came to grief. The 37 stayed on the road , the vans did not.
After some educational experiences and the inevitable arguments as to who had caused it , a recovery meeting , sans "mobile phones" took place. The engineers "found" some spare track within about 100 yards - there was a hidden 4 hoppers of clean ballast down at Radyr which were on their way within an hour , and the then freight only line was open in about 5 hours - not bad going. "One railway"
Scores were settled later. But yes - what people might think was scrap rail , was really a strategic reserve. Just as well as there were 2 major coal forwarding points to deal with.
I learned a lot that day , about "protection" and co-ordinated working by the superb local District Signalling Inspector and his PW mates.
416GSi
Member
I seem to remember a report on Midlands Today when they reopened Snow Hill in Birmingham c.1987 that track from Moor Street, in the tunnel and into the platforms had been recovered from the Woodhead route.
Can't prove this and have no documentary evidence to back this up, but it does sound plausible.
Can't prove this and have no documentary evidence to back this up, but it does sound plausible.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
As mentioned before - Salop - Machynlleth had some modest line speed improvements in the mid 1970's , using recovered plain line off the ECML , when 125 operation was initiated there. There was a handy PW yard at Hookagate in those days.
This topic has reminded me of a time when I was in renewals, and we relaid a section of the Down Ely-Norwich line in serviceable sleepers (i.e ones that had been recovered from a previous renewal).
Although they could come from anywhere on the network, you can imagine my surprise when all the sleepers came out full equipped with the old con-rail pots! Needless to say we didn’t have time to mess around with them, so there is a 400yd section near the old Padnal signal box that is fully potted up ready for the con-rail to go on (for those who don’t know the irony of this, Ely-Norwich is unelectrified).
The less said about NR’s grading process the better - as well as the pots at least one in every 4 sleepers still had a broken clip in the housing
Although they could come from anywhere on the network, you can imagine my surprise when all the sleepers came out full equipped with the old con-rail pots! Needless to say we didn’t have time to mess around with them, so there is a 400yd section near the old Padnal signal box that is fully potted up ready for the con-rail to go on (for those who don’t know the irony of this, Ely-Norwich is unelectrified).
The less said about NR’s grading process the better - as well as the pots at least one in every 4 sleepers still had a broken clip in the housing
BluePenguin
On Moderation
There seems to be an awful lot of spare/broken tracks next to the new sea wall between Folkestone and Dover.
Lots of the equipment and materials used to re-build the sea wall and track when it collapsed a few years ago are still sitting there to this day; there is even a neat row of signs Network Rail signs above each of the piles of stuff labelling what is below them.
I had thought for a while that it all had been left, in case it was needed for future repairs, but there does seem to be an awful lot of it so I think it might have been either abandoned or forgotten about.
Does anyone know anything about why all of this is still there?
Lots of the equipment and materials used to re-build the sea wall and track when it collapsed a few years ago are still sitting there to this day; there is even a neat row of signs Network Rail signs above each of the piles of stuff labelling what is below them.
I had thought for a while that it all had been left, in case it was needed for future repairs, but there does seem to be an awful lot of it so I think it might have been either abandoned or forgotten about.
Does anyone know anything about why all of this is still there?
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ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Much like St Albans branch which had some "cascaded" sleepers off the DC line with pot holders in place.
Rockhopper
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Are redundant lines actually abandoned? I’m thinking of Colliery branches for example. Many have the main line connection severed and the track lifted so what happens to the remainder of the kit left behind? Signage, ballast etc and around here huge piles of concrete sleepers that must have been there for ten years at least.
Is it fair game for anyone who wants it or does it still belong to NR?
Is it fair game for anyone who wants it or does it still belong to NR?
Arriving into Kings Cross it always annoys me to see post engineering work junk dumped into the arches. One was bricked up almost to the top - presumably so nobody would see what was dumped inside... but since the train is higher than the track you see it every time. Lazy
On most TOC walks the maintainer would prefer we leave usable materials ‐ sleepers, 60ft lengths of rail, ballast bags etc - than recover and remove them
(TOC ‐ taking over control - the point where responsibility for the track returns from renewals to maintainence)
(TOC ‐ taking over control - the point where responsibility for the track returns from renewals to maintainence)
High Dyke
Established Member
Network Rail are not always the fastest at recovering redundant materials. I noticed that replaced panels of track are sunning themselves on the lineside approaching Grantham from Nottingham. I know that the track made redundant when the Barkston South - East Chord closed is still stacked along the line of the former curve...they've only been there since 2005.
randyrippley
Established Member
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always surprises me when I see flatbed artics on the motorway carrying complete sections of lifted track with rail cut to truck size length still attached to sleepers - usually concrete.
Seems very inefficiemt
Seems very inefficiemt
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Often the easiest way to get access is to use a road wagon. If you can get the used panels to a storage point near an access point "on the night" you can cart them away much more easily than needing possessions and walk outs to get a train in
And by far the most efficient way of getting track out of the ground is to lift it out in panels. Two cranes tandem lifting can get a mile of track out in a few hours. Much easier than unclipping, thimbling the rail out to one side, then lifting out sleepers in bales of (at most) 7 at a time, and still having to come back for the rail.
I believe most of the concrete sleepers used to reinstate the Waverley route to Galashiels came from the closed Leamside line. They certainly looked secondhand when stacked at Millerhill. Rail came new from Scunthorpe rail mill in 240 ft lengths? and welded into cwr on site.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Correct. There was plenty of life left in them
That’s what I thought happened. They certainly looks dnew when I was on it! The difference in cost is about £90k a mile; chickenfeed in the scale of things for an all new railway, but can make quite a difference when reinstating sidings etc.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Oh! I didnt know that!
Do you know where they went? We could do with some good secondhand sleepers near Horsforth! Still 60ft rail on wooden sleepers.
I must admit that the ones I saw being laid down towards Gala were newer than the piles of sleepers I saw stacked at Millerhill. I just assumed they had exhausted the supply from Leamside and had to revert to new sleepers to complete the project.
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