Ben Conlin
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Ah right I don’t think I’ve been on a 380 and heard the guard make an announcement so I won’t have heard the chime
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Scotrail Class 385 Discussion
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snookertam
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Does anyone have any idea how the remaining units will be phased in to replace the remaining 314s?
ie. are they likely to be direct replacements on the same diagrams or is there likely to be a further cascade of units?
ie. are they likely to be direct replacements on the same diagrams or is there likely to be a further cascade of units?
GrimShady
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This is the chime
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13DJ6vs3yCZY1rDMwV0qEaYLZ7b2vc92P/view?usp=drivesdk
Last edited:
That seems to have linked to a 170 refurbishment project.
Sam
GrimShady
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AlexNL
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Walk around on any Dutch railway station and you'll hear that chime a couple of times per hour.
Ben Conlin
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Interesting, I was wondering when or if they would make it on that line however I think a 3 car 385 could be tight on capacity compared to the regular 4 car 380. I’d like to see the remaining Lanark service to be switched to a 385
scotrail158713
Established Member
The PIS was used as that was all that was keeping me awake when I was on the 23.30 from Queen Street one night
HankyuDentetsu
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Just to chime in (no pun intended!) on posts over the last few days - I too am becoming much more fond of the 385s. Their acceleration and speed are tremendous and they are for the most part a quiet and comfortable train to travel in. My gripes are minor, for the most part I think we've got a good piece of kit that'll do us well in the long term. Once we head up to 8 cars on the E&G line we'll be sitting with a very impressive service which I would imagine many cities down south would be envious of!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The largest issue I had was the ride was a bit lumpy on the E&G, poorer than a 170 I'd say. Though on the Shotts line it was fine.
Ben Conlin
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I agree
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
While at Queen Street today for my usual tedious purposes, I got into conversation with a couple of Hitachi fitters on duty for the 385s. They were saying that the 385s seem to have settled down now and hadn’t needed much attention recently, from them at least, beyond some minor work on brakes on one unit. They were both glad they didn’t work for CAF. 
Alanko
Member
It is a bit 'shoogly', if you allow me to dip into Scots! In part it helps add to the feeling of speed, as the trains pinball around. I felt that the 365s were harder riding, though.
My two tiny gripes with the 385 are that the tables and seats are at odd distances and heights to each other. I find it tricky to eat, or work on my laptop, at a table. I can slump forwards, but find this uncomfortable.
The other gripe is the lack of haptic feedback on the door opening buttons. You press it but nothing happens. My iPhone does a little haptic 'click'. I didn't realise this was simulated until the power was off on my phone, and it wouldn't click. If I wear gloves it doesn't click either. Just that little bit of feedback lets me know something is actually happening!
Minor gripes I know.
TheAlbanach_
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The tables at bays of four seem to be the right height, but at airline seats (same of refurbed 156s) the table just seem way too low. Other than that, I really like them big improvement on the Shotts line.
GrimShady
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They definitely don't ride as well as 170s that's for sure. They seem to vibrate under hard acceleration.
Glenmutchkin
Member
Of course we will never know if a 170 would vibrate under the sort of acceleration demonstrated by 385s.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
That's it exactly - they're a bit shoogly! Though 380s are worse. Agree about the 365s, they were hard riding, seemed to be little give in the suspension.
I've experienced the same sensation on 365s and 380s. I wonder if it's the acceleration is approaching the point where it can't be sustained by the available adhesion and the train is approaching the point where it wants to slip but isn't quite.
NorthClyde320
Member
Having travelled on a number of class 385's on various routes I feel they are suited to most of the routes and I really enjoy travelling in them as I find them comfortable, spacious and fast. However, I just don't feel they are suited to the Cathcart & Newton routes. On Friday evening 2 coupled units arrived into Central at 19.05 to work the 19.15 Cathcart service, following a difficulty in splitting the units it left 9 mins late, I thought it would pick up some time but arrived back into Central 13 mins late, it felt like every stop took longer to board/alight compared to other units on these routes, I also feel that on the Newton section the unit feels as if it is bouncing on the tracks, and not a smooth ride. I think that the 385's are best suited to routes where they can accelerate more and don't have to stop as much as on the Cathcart & Newton routes. I feel these routes are best suited to the 318's & 320's.
snookertam
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I think the issue here is that the ScotRail planners are working to a few competing requirements.
There are operational requirements where these units were primarily for the Edinburgh/Queen Street/Stirling area workings, and the Shotts services. There is also the requirement to replace the class 314 units, so they've done so as part of one big order of 385s.
The units on routes working to and from Central are diagrammed partly based on passenger numbers. Hence why the former North Berwick class 380 diagrams were switched to the Neilston line, as the 4 car 380s provided increased capacity during the day on these services.
The class 385s are now taking most Lanarks and are slotting in on the Inverclyde and Cathcart routes. The reasoning here appears to be that as Gourock drivers work the Cathcart routes, the 385s can be worked to Inverclyde with little/no concern with crew knowledge. I think part of the reason they will persist with 385s on the Cathcart routes is that the original plan was for 6 car class 385s during the peaks on the Cathcart Circle, again due to passenger numbers.
Ideally there would be the set up that @SC318250 has outlined above but there wouldn't be likely to be enough 385s to take over Ayrshire srvices and you wouldn't get any seven cars like now with the 380s. You'd have to train Ayr based drivers on them as well, which until now they haven't been. There's an argument for working them alongside the 380s on that line, releasing some 380s to most likely INverclyde, but it seems they have thought why bother with a cascade like that. I think it will be likely they will do the same with the Cathcart routes, directly replacing the remaining 314s. However, I don't think the 385s are any worse than the 380s for a route of that nature. Both unit types struggle with the short distances between stations.
Again, ideally class 318s and 320s would be better on the Cathcart routes, but there's probably not enough to completely take over, and there would likely be a loss of capacity even if they did. I would also point out, that these units would have to get some of the panels around the doors taken out, as they are not the most spacious for standing.
Operationally this isn't a great scenario as you will now have three unit types on the Cathcart and Inverclyde routes none of which are compatible, which is disastrous in a failure situation as the chances of a failed unit being rescued by the one behind it are minimal. I can only imagine the control are frustrated with this, particularly with the Cathcart Circle where during times of severe disruption, the old Central Signal box could turn trains as required without any thoughts to the consequences and report back later on what had formed what. To do so now would cause havoc with all the different unit types ending up in random places at the end of the day. So for performance it potentially isn't great either.
However, I think ScotRail are largely doing what they are told when it comes to unit diagramming, and the units with the greatest capacity are being allocated to the routes with the greatest demand, with the rest filling in behind almost quite randomly.
There are operational requirements where these units were primarily for the Edinburgh/Queen Street/Stirling area workings, and the Shotts services. There is also the requirement to replace the class 314 units, so they've done so as part of one big order of 385s.
The units on routes working to and from Central are diagrammed partly based on passenger numbers. Hence why the former North Berwick class 380 diagrams were switched to the Neilston line, as the 4 car 380s provided increased capacity during the day on these services.
The class 385s are now taking most Lanarks and are slotting in on the Inverclyde and Cathcart routes. The reasoning here appears to be that as Gourock drivers work the Cathcart routes, the 385s can be worked to Inverclyde with little/no concern with crew knowledge. I think part of the reason they will persist with 385s on the Cathcart routes is that the original plan was for 6 car class 385s during the peaks on the Cathcart Circle, again due to passenger numbers.
Ideally there would be the set up that @SC318250 has outlined above but there wouldn't be likely to be enough 385s to take over Ayrshire srvices and you wouldn't get any seven cars like now with the 380s. You'd have to train Ayr based drivers on them as well, which until now they haven't been. There's an argument for working them alongside the 380s on that line, releasing some 380s to most likely INverclyde, but it seems they have thought why bother with a cascade like that. I think it will be likely they will do the same with the Cathcart routes, directly replacing the remaining 314s. However, I don't think the 385s are any worse than the 380s for a route of that nature. Both unit types struggle with the short distances between stations.
Again, ideally class 318s and 320s would be better on the Cathcart routes, but there's probably not enough to completely take over, and there would likely be a loss of capacity even if they did. I would also point out, that these units would have to get some of the panels around the doors taken out, as they are not the most spacious for standing.
Operationally this isn't a great scenario as you will now have three unit types on the Cathcart and Inverclyde routes none of which are compatible, which is disastrous in a failure situation as the chances of a failed unit being rescued by the one behind it are minimal. I can only imagine the control are frustrated with this, particularly with the Cathcart Circle where during times of severe disruption, the old Central Signal box could turn trains as required without any thoughts to the consequences and report back later on what had formed what. To do so now would cause havoc with all the different unit types ending up in random places at the end of the day. So for performance it potentially isn't great either.
However, I think ScotRail are largely doing what they are told when it comes to unit diagramming, and the units with the greatest capacity are being allocated to the routes with the greatest demand, with the rest filling in behind almost quite randomly.
JumpinTrainz
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I would hope so. Like said above they are working on meeting requirements and that is to have the Class 385s introduces into service on newly electrified lines and for the Class 314s to be withdrawn.
Hopefully over time we will see the 380s and 385s perhaps split over Ayrshire, Inverclyde and E&G services while the 320s and 318s pick up most of the ex-314 work. However has stated above there probably isn’t enough stock for them to do so which brings in the 380s and 385s. It’s been mentioned a few times but ideally SR would look at a commuter train specifically for shorter distance work.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Quite possibly, in general terms they are pretty similar - same top speed, similar layout, similar acceleration. The only downside is they can't multi with 380s.
adrock1976
Established Member
There is a new thread regarding suggestions of traction type for the Cathcart/Neilston/Newton lines.
See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...location-and-possible-tram-conversion.185268/
See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...location-and-possible-tram-conversion.185268/
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Tbh the 385s are not that bad for the Cathcart lines really, but 318/320 are just arguably more suited.
Southsider
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But what do you then use on North Clyde and Argyle lines instead of the 318/320s?
Ben Conlin
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- 19 Aug 2018
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Argyle Line will be an interesting one apart from the lack of air conditioning in the summer there is no reason from what I see anyway that they need replacing soon. They already have disabled toilets and PIS so time will tell. I imagine it’ll be a larger commuter type order enough to cover the Maryhill or East Kilbride lines should they get electrified
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I think you'd have to retain some 380s and/or 385s on the Cathcart/Paisley Canal otherwise there might not be enough 318/320s to Naunton current frequencies on the Argyle.
Did the 318s get accessible mods?
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