Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

ExRes · 24 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I doubt they get to play on the 230s, though.

That raises a good point though, should there be customer satisfaction surveys held at HM Bedford for those who've used the 230s to visit their loved ones?

RailUK Forums

Meerkat · 24 Jun 2019

Have there been any more rumblings about whether 230s are really going to the Isle of Wight and when?

DarloRich · 24 Jun 2019

ExRes said:
That raises a good point though, should there be customer satisfaction surveys held at HM Bedford for those who've used the 230s to visit their loved ones?

Bedford generally deals with prisoners remanded into custody from Luton Crown Court, St Albans Crown Court and Magistrates' Courts in Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire. I suspect few visitors are coming from Bletchley. Our local nick is Aylesbury.

( or Woodhill if you are a serious villain)

driver_m · 24 Jun 2019

I love how wildly off topic this has gone!

Trivia: What’s the biggest sh—hole to have been visited by a 230? Cant see the mods suggesting this as a new thread though somehow.

sw1ller · 24 Jun 2019

driver_m said:
I love how wildly off topic this has gone!

Trivia: What’s the biggest sh—hole to have been visited by a 230? Cant see the mods suggesting this as a new thread though somehow.

Can we go with places planned in the near future? If so, I’m going with Hope

Xenophon PCDGS · 24 Jun 2019

Meerkat said:
Have there been any more rumblings about whether 230s are really going to the Isle of Wight and when?

I think there is a long-running thread in existence that is specific to the Isle of Wight on this website. "Rumblings" are naught but hot air aspirations usually, expressed by those who are in no position whatsoever to influence matters.

driver_m · 24 Jun 2019

sw1ller said:
Can we go with places planned in the near future? If so, I’m going with Hope

Meow! Birkenhead North will be the undisputed winner to be fair, unless they can ever sneak towards Rock Ferry.

driver_m · 24 Jun 2019

Delete. Double post.

Chris125 · 25 Jun 2019

Meerkat said:
Have there been any more rumblings about whether 230s are really going to the Isle of Wight and when?

It's widely understood that SWR submitted their proposal to use them late last year, so we continue to await a public response from the DfT.

DarloRich · 26 Jun 2019

The biggest issue with the 230's at present is temperature. They are VERY hot. Any future specification MUST include air con!

507 001 · 26 Jun 2019

For those in the know (and I apologise if this has already been explained), what exactly is the problem with the door release procedure that’s making it so slow?

Bletchleyite · 26 Jun 2019

507 001 said:
For those in the know (and I apologise if this has already been explained), what exactly is the problem with the door release procedure that’s making it so slow?

The doors themselves move slowly (slower than they did as D-stock), then add to that that the button doesn't become active until around 5 seconds after the release bleep has started. Add to that LNR policy that (unlike some TOCs) the guard must get out, step away from the train, actively look both ways to check platforming[1], then go back and open, and it gets very slow, particularly as by then people are boarding/alighting through the local door and the guard finds it hard to get back.

Put together it easily costs 30+ seconds per stop.

[1] Unlike say Northern where it's a quick glance with hands still on the open button, it's done in such an exaggerated manner that I suspect the rule is almost Japanese-style - i.e. not only must you do it but you must be seen to have done it.

Mordac · 26 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The doors themselves move slowly (slower than they did as D-stock), then add to that that the button doesn't become active until around 5 seconds after the release bleep has started. Add to that LNR policy that (unlike some TOCs) the guard must get out, step away from the train, actively look both ways to check platforming[1], then go back and open, and it gets very slow, particularly as by then people are boarding/alighting through the local door and the guard finds it hard to get back.

Put together it easily costs 30+ seconds per stop.

[1] Unlike say Northern where it's a quick glance with hands still on the open button, it's done in such an exaggerated manner that I suspect the rule is almost Japanese-style - i.e. not only must you do it but you must be seen to have done it.

This leads to so much wasted time on the CrossCity line it's not even funny, I really hope they move to driver open, guard closes.

Bletchleyite · 26 Jun 2019

Mordac said:
This leads to so much wasted time on the CrossCity line it's not even funny, I really hope they move to driver open, guard closes.

Driver open, guard close would be perfect for the Marston Vale, but the doors themselves also need speeding up.

southern442 · 26 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Driver open, guard close would be perfect for the Marston Vale, but the doors themselves also need speeding up.

Did they slow them down because they were deemed too fast initially?

Bletchleyite · 26 Jun 2019

southern442 said:
Did they slow them down because they were deemed too fast initially?

Possibly, though they have operated safely on LU for years.

Bantamzen · 26 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
The doors themselves move slowly (slower than they did as D-stock), then add to that that the button doesn't become active until around 5 seconds after the release bleep has started. Add to that LNR policy that (unlike some TOCs) the guard must get out, step away from the train, actively look both ways to check platforming[1], then go back and open, and it gets very slow, particularly as by then people are boarding/alighting through the local door and the guard finds it hard to get back.

Put together it easily costs 30+ seconds per stop.

[1] Unlike say Northern where it's a quick glance with hands still on the open button, it's done in such an exaggerated manner that I suspect the rule is almost Japanese-style - i.e. not only must you do it but you must be seen to have done it.

That's not true of all Northern stations, Shipley for example needs the guard to check all doors are clear before releasing them.

Bletchleyite · 26 Jun 2019

Bantamzen said:
That's not true of all Northern stations, Shipley for example needs the guard to check all doors are clear before releasing them.

For a curved platform yes, but if he can see from the door he's releasing he seems not to be required to step out, whereas on LNR they always step out and do a little dance before getting back in and releasing.

Bantamzen · 26 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
For a curved platform yes, but if he can see from the door he's releasing he seems not to be required to step out, whereas on LNR they always step out and do a little dance before getting back in and releasing.

Some of the newer guards do seem to do a walk off the unit to check even on straight platforms, they've certainly done it many a time at my local station at Baildon which is straight.

DarloRich · 26 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Driver open, guard close would be perfect for the Marston Vale, but the doors themselves also need speeding up.

i think they have been. The process is still far too slow mind.

D365 · 27 Jun 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
I think there is a long-running thread in existence that is specific to the Isle of Wight on this website. "Rumblings" are naught but hot air aspirations usually, expressed by those who are in no position whatsoever to influence matters.

From the Vivarail side of things, the sale of third-rail equipped D-Trains for Isle of Wight use has definitely been put forward.

Xenophon PCDGS · 27 Jun 2019

D365 said:
From the Vivarail side of things, the sale of third-rail equipped D-Trains for Isle of Wight use has definitely been put forward.

I would have imagined that to have been the case as Vivarail would have been examining all possible sources for sales of their product, but it is the decision of those who actually place such orders for replacement unit use on the Island Line that I am more interested in.

DarloRich · 27 Jun 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
I would have imagined that to have been the case as Vivarail would have been examining all possible sources for sales of their product, but it is the decision of those who actually place such orders for replacement unit use on the Island Line that I am more interested in.

Goodness me. I am sure there will be a competitive tender in due course whereafter the specifying body can select the most appropriate item. But you know this!

duffield · 27 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Bedford town centre is a bit grotty but it's nice down by the river, wouldn't travel a long way to visit it, though.

Th riverside area is not just nice, but positively pleasant on a sunny day. I might go there on Saturday (supposedly a very hot day) for an enjoyable riverside drinky. Maybe a pootle up and down to Bletchley as well...

Xenophon PCDGS · 27 Jun 2019

DarloRich said:
Goodness me. I am sure there will be a competitive tender in due course whereafter the specifying body can select the most appropriate item. But you know this!

Indeed I do, but it is the mindset of those who actually award the contract that I was discussing, not the mindset of those who would submit such tenders.

philthetube · 28 Jun 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
The line in question is not one that I would ever find the need to use as there is no reason, at the age of 74, why I would need to visit the area in question. I am sure that the countless YouTube videos and pictorial images of what the Class 230 units actually portray that I have seen are more than enough to convince me still that my original comments concerning the outdated visual external experience of the Class 230 units are still correct.

I think it was an American politician of note who once said that "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig"...or words to that effect.

Very true but when I am eating the bacon I don't care if the pig wore lipstick

sw1ller · 30 Jun 2019

I don’t know if this is the right thread for this but still.....

Interesting article in the Liverpool Echo about the borderlands line.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseysides-awful-wales-train-link-16503032

It’s the last paragraph that’s got my attention....

"But we have got a much more ambitious plan for that line working with all of those partners. We genuinely want to see a Metro-style service on that line coming all the way through into the heart of Liverpool. We don't think the stop at Bidston is the right one."

Sounds very promising.

Brissle Girl · 30 Jun 2019

Agree. It looks like a deal between TfW and Merseyrail is likely to enable running further into Liverpool. The next question would be whether Liverpool would be willing to fund a further step up in service frequency which would require more units. That seems less likely but not completely implausible.

Bletchleyite · 30 Jun 2019

Brissle Girl said:
Agree. It looks like a deal between TfW and Merseyrail is likely to enable running further into Liverpool.

Though with what rolling stock? I did think James St could be used (as there is a spare platform in normal operations which would be ideal for terminating it, and it presumably wouldn't be hard to reinstate third rail capability on a 230, so basically make it a bi-mode) but had omitted to consider that the outbound line at Hamilton Square uses the single-bore tunnel so it'd need an end door.

krus_aragon · 30 Jun 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Though with what rolling stock? I did think James St could be used (as there is a spare platform in normal operations which would be ideal for terminating it, and it presumably wouldn't be hard to reinstate third rail capability on a 230, so basically make it a bi-mode) but had omitted to consider that the outbound line at Hamilton Square uses the single-bore tunnel so it'd need an end door.

It won't be the 230s. They're a short-term stop-gap to prove the business case by showing what passenger traffic is like at 2tph to Bidston.

Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

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