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Class 345 progress

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iphone76

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Isn't work happening at Aldersbrook to lengthen this eventually to nine coaches, possibly by removing a siding or two or did I just imagine that?

I don't think any work is going on there. I took a train in there last night and couldn't see anything going on and the last I heard the sidings won't be adapted for the 9 cars. Of course - things can and do change!
 

Peter Mugridge

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Which one? I used the line almost every day last week and didn't spot any units I didn't recognise. Is it on the west side?

Possibly 345 003; it's been moved over from the Liverpool Street side and it's been on the Hayes shuttles for most of the past month.
 

theblackwatch

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345002 is currently at Bombardier as a 7 car
345001 is due back soon to get ready to go south and 345018 is at Melton replacing 345001 as the test unit there.

Any idea when 345002 arrived back at Bombardier please? I have it last recorded as being at Crewe.
 

33021

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Only 345002-17/22 are in 7-car formation. 345001 has 345022's extra cars - 345001/2/4 are test units and not in service - everything else is 9-car.

There is no chopping and changing of unit lengths going on.

There is one more 7 car.....
 
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Sorry I didn't count the number of vehicles but I thought Hayes bay platform can only take 7 cars but I could be wrong about that.
 

JonathanH

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Sorry I didn't count the number of vehicles but I thought Hayes bay platform can only take 7 cars but I could be wrong about that.

I thought so too but then saw TIN counters for 9-car 345s start appearing and got a bit puzzled...

9 car now but I'm not sure about the paperwork...

I still don't think the operators would be keen about using 9-car 345s out of Paddington before December even if Hayes & Harlington bay is no longer an issue.

Although no TfL Rail services now seem to be booked into platform 14 at Paddington, it does look like they go there when platform availability requires it.

RTT suggests that the following Hayes & Harlington shuttles have used platform 14 this week.

Monday
1817 to Hayes & Harlington

Tuesday
1417, 2317 to Hayes & Harlington

Interestingly the 1347 used platform 2.

Wednesday
None
 

A7rud

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Does anyone know the identity of the 345s currently stabled at Maidenhead? Apologies if this has been asked previously.
 

Nippy

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One came out of Maidenhead last night. The one nearest the Up Relief. It went to OOC. It didn't return there before I left at 6:30.
 

JonathanH

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345029 is on the Paddington - Hayes & Harlington circuit today. Maybe this is the unit being referred to?

Is that a 7-car? If so, then yes I imagine it must be.

Today = 26 June (ie yesterday) in the above quotes

Is this really true and not confusion for a test train running at about the time of the Hayes shuttle?

Iris / Tiger shows 7-cars on these services today http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/renderstaffsoad.asp?file=30200B.xml

Taking cars 4 and 6 out of a 9-car train requires shunting, software changes and storage of the cars somewhere.

It doesn't appear to have been reported elsewhere and I would expect operation of an additional 7-car or the first 9-car to be 'big news'.
 
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100% true. I travelled on 345029 on 1417 Paddington - Hayes (26/06). It just didn't cross my mind to count the number of vehicles.
 

JonathanH

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My investigation this evening yielded only

345013 9T68 2148 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington
and
345003 9P64 2148 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington
 

Peter Mugridge

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345 029 is on the Hayes shuttles today - currently in Paddington at 11.40; it does indeed have 7 carriages.
 

kevin_roche

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For those who are interested in the 7 versus 9 carriage situation, there is some useful information in the Jacobs review report released today on the TfL website. (RLU = Reduced Length Unit, FLU = Full Length Unit)

6.2 RLU –FLU Swap-Out
As we described in our Period 1 report, just prior to the MTR-CSVP meeting, the ORR decided not to provide a letter of no objection to BT (Bombardier Transportation) and required the train to be re-authorised. BT has reported that it will comply with the ORR stipulation, and has now received the letter of no objection. In anticipation, BT has submitted a proposal to the SVP that FLUs with Y0.256 configuration be approved for both ECS movements to Reading, and passenger services to Hayes and Harlington. For that to happen, the SVP will want to see evidence that:

  • A train has completed 1,250 fault-free miles;
  • The list of driver defects and control measures is manageable, with a plan for rectification;
  • ETCS resets have been eradicated;
  • Technical assurance documentation is complete;
  • The ORR letter of no objection has been issued (so any approval will be conditional until such letter has been produced);
  • The RSSB deviation has been extended to December 2019. (This was extended on 6 June).

The defects and controls issue is the primary issue for us, as BT and MTR-C must agree on what is an acceptable number, and nature of them, to start operations with. This needs to be supported by a suitable rectification plan for dealing with them. The other concern is whether any key defects extend beyond the start of Stage 5A.
Achievement of the fault-free running target remains difficult, as there is a lack of sustained access to the GWML to test and accumulate the miles. CRL is assisting BT in obtaining greater access.
 
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kevin_roche

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Seems from the above report that testing has begun in the Heathrow Tunnels:

CRL has reported that testing on the Heathrow Spur in the period has produced some good results, but software development remains the most significant risk to the Stage 2-2 programme.

As can be seen from the table, BT’s at-risk datefor Y1.2 completion has moved back by 10 weeks to 25 October 2019. This is due to the need to build an additional TCMS release to manage the issues arising from BT testing, together with the associated assurance approvals.

There is also a lack of clarity about the software authorisation process. This is because of the relative novelty of the software for the approving bodies. Current issues with Stage 5A approvals, the software for which manages simpler technology, illustrate the difficulties of the approval process.
 
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kevin_roche

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What is the location and status of the fleet now?

I have not heard of any changes and I believe Full Length Units are only being used for testing as they are not currently approved for passenger use.

To get approved for passenger use they must solve a problem they have with ETCS resets. I'm not sure why, as ETCS is only used in the Heathrow tunnels.
I think solving this problem requires some work from Network Rail so that the trains can be tested again in the Heathrow Tunnels.

The above is pure speculation but it is based on what I have read in the 2nd period Jacob's report. See post #2814 above.

The report from Crossrail submitted to next week's TfL board says:
Close headway multi-train testing in the tunnels has now commenced with a minimum safe distance between trains, at slow speed, of only 50metres. During July, testing will see the speed of the trains progressively increase and more of the automatic train operation functions brought into the testing programme. Testing of further versions of software provided by Siemens and Bombardier is also underway at the Crossrail Integration Facility located in Chippenham. These tests will build reliability of the software before it is used in the tunnels. The latest release of software is important as it will allow testing of further functionality and allow Bombardier to commence critical assurance activities for the train

I expect there will be another Jacob's report covering period 3 released in 3 or 4 weeks time.
 

JonathanH

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What is the location and status of the fleet now?

I have 345.003,5-17,22,29 in service as 7 cars, but the rest?

A full list was posted a number of days ago on a number of gen lists eg ukmodernemu etc. 345028 is also in service as a 7-car.
 

iphone76

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To get approved for passenger use they must solve a problem they have with ETCS resets. I'm not sure why, as ETCS is only used in the Heathrow tunnels.

It's probably because the ETCS computer controls all the various signalling systems in the FLUs including AWS/TPWS, ETCS and CBTC. On the existing RLUs they use a standalone AWS/TPWS system.
 
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