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Is 'Dark Tourism' morally right?

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Samuel88

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My colleague took a trip to Gloucester yesterday and while there made a side trip to the 'house of horrors' to take a few photos. Even though the house has been demolished I found it frankly distasteful but he didn't think anything of it.
Do you think it's right to visit murder sites?
 
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Samuel88

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Where do you draw the line? Is it morally right for example to visit The Tower of London?
To me visiting the home of Fred and Rose West is on a different order of magnitude to visiting the Tower of London!
 

ChiefPlanner

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Until 10 Rillington Place was demolished in 1971 , there was a regular stream of visitors , even though the street name was changed back in the 1950's.

The Post Office mentioned in a documentary on "horror houses" that mail addressed to John R H Christie used to turn up for that house. Quite sick.

There are several tour guides that do Jack the Ripper / Kray Brothers walks in the East End.
 

AM9

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To me visiting the home of Fred and Rose West is on a different order of magnitude to visiting the Tower of London!
Ah, you mean that traditional school history-book stories are less embarassing history reminders. Maybe you should campaign to have the awkward stuff airbrushed away, (as in flattened), then you can pretend that it didn't happen. There are many atrocities committed by all sorts of UK citizens, some of whom are still held as heroes by the uninformed.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Ah, you mean that traditional school history-book stories are less embarassing history reminders. Maybe you should campaign to have the awkward stuff airbrushed away, (as in flattened), then you can pretend that it didn't happen. There are many atrocities committed by all sorts of UK citizens, some of whom are still held as heroes by the uninformed.

I am reminded of the Ladybird Books - very popular in my day and "nice reads" - the one on Oliver Cromwell was the usual "positive" version in a jolly way - but one telling page mentioned his love of pets - (cute picture) - with a small mention of his role in the massacres at Drogheda etc as a seemingly "unfortunate" hitch. At least it was mentioned.

The spoof Ladybird books have corrected this "My First Joint" - "The Ladybird Book on the Mid Life Crisis" etc
 

district

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What about Chernobyl or Auschwitz? Isn’t it important to visit places where terrible atrocities happen to keep the victims in memory & prevent them from happening in the future?
 

ChiefPlanner

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What about Chernobyl or Auschwitz? Isn’t it important to visit places where terrible atrocities happen to keep the victims in memory & prevent them from happening in the future?

Very good point , I have a friend who is an Auschwitz "guide" for the Holocaust trust , he said that most people he has shown around found it both upsetting and yet sobering.

Ditto the murdered French settlement of Oradour-sur-Glane , my wife and I stumbled upon by accident 30 years ago , and much the same sentiments.
 

thejuggler

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Back in the late 80s that house was still there. I lived not far away and cycled past it regularly.
 

Ianno87

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Very good point , I have a friend who is an Auschwitz "guide" for the Holocaust trust , he said that most people he has shown around found it both upsetting and yet sobering.

Ditto the murdered French settlement of Oradour-sur-Glane , my wife and I stumbled upon by accident 30 years ago , and much the same sentiments.

I've visted Auschwitz and it somehow manages to avoid being 'touristy' very well. It's just....there. Plain as day and very sobering (and horrible in equal measure), and thoroughly committed volunteers to keep it that way.

Given it takes a bit of effort to get to, I think that helps filter out the selfie/Instagram brigade.

Although most of the 'living' (if it life there could ever be described as that) huts are now closed to protect them from twerps scratching their initials everywhere.

A physical reminder that should always be kept as to what blaming problems on a particular group of people (or peoples) can escalate to.
 

robk23oxf

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Visiting the 9/11 Memorial Museum made me feel uncomfortable. Not the exhibits because it was interesting to see up close an important part of world history. What got me was how much money was being made from the whole thing and people taking smiley selfies like they were at Alton Towers.
 

Bald Rick

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I think there’s a difference between visiting sites that have been the scene of state (or quasi-state) sponsored atrocity, and sites that happen to be the home of an individual.

The former serves as a reminder to all how a society can turn ‘bad’ and hopefully educate those to prevent it happening again. The latter is just gawping.
 

bramling

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My colleague took a trip to Gloucester yesterday and while there made a side trip to the 'house of horrors' to take a few photos. Even though the house has been demolished I found it frankly distasteful but he didn't think anything of it.
Do you think it's right to visit murder sites?

I think the answer is it depends. I’ve been known to visit a few railway accident memorials, and I wouldn’t say there’s anything distasteful about that - in my view part of the raisin d’etre for having such memorials is to ensure the lessons learned are never forgotten. And one can’t help but have the most massive admiration for someone like Driver Axon of Chapel-en-le-Frith fame.

I have to confess that on a recent holiday we, happening to be in Bathpool Park for another reason, out of curiosity couldn’t resist seeking out the manhole at the centre of the Black Panther murder. In all honesty it was rather moving and sobering.

It’s worth noting that memories of these incidents are often still locally raw many years later. I remember visiting the scene of the Lockington crossing accident a few years ago, as it happens more to do with the disused station than the accident, and one of the nearby property owners commented that it’s still an open wound locally. That was over 30 years past the event.

I’d say there’s nothing dark about it, but certainly respect needs to be shown.
 

Howardh

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Near me, there was a murder on the summit of Winter Hill (1838) and there's the "Scotsman's Stump" and plaque there for walkers to view. It's quite well known in the area, and I wonder if that's "dark" tourism or simply a historical event that happened way too long ago to be macabre?
 

Drsatan

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Visiting the 9/11 Memorial Museum made me feel uncomfortable. Not the exhibits because it was interesting to see up close an important part of world history. What got me was how much money was being made from the whole thing and people taking smiley selfies like they were at Alton Towers.

There was a big row when the museum opened in 2014 about the $24 admission fee. The Mayor of NYC said the admission fee was necessary to make up for a lack of federal funding.

I went there in 2016 and didn't visit the gift shop so can't comment whether that was in poor taste of not. I did feel annoyed that people were taking selfies at the monument itself, which is technically a mausoleum as many bodies were never found following the events of that day. A bit of respect would have been nice.
 

Bantamzen

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Visiting the 9/11 Memorial Museum made me feel uncomfortable. Not the exhibits because it was interesting to see up close an important part of world history. What got me was how much money was being made from the whole thing and people taking smiley selfies like they were at Alton Towers.

I must admit when in New York I didn't visit the museum, simply being at the memorial was powerful enough for me. And to be fair that is tastefully done, seeing all those names from so many different cultures together really drove the scale of the tragedy home, and the NYPD / security working the site always made sure, calmly & very politely, that no-one obscured any names even for a moment in case a relative or friend came along. People taking selfies of course is another thing, people these days do like them but the WTC Memorial really isn't the place I agree.
 

Ianno87

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Near me, there was a murder on the summit of Winter Hill (1838) and there's the "Scotsman's Stump" and plaque there for walkers to view. It's quite well known in the area, and I wonder if that's "dark" tourism or simply a historical event that happened way too long ago to be macabre?

And the plane crash memorial up there too.
 

JohnMcL7

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I must admit when in New York I didn't visit the museum, simply being at the memorial was powerful enough for me. And to be fair that is tastefully done, seeing all those names from so many different cultures together really drove the scale of the tragedy home, and the NYPD / security working the site always made sure, calmly & very politely, that no-one obscured any names even for a moment in case a relative or friend came along. People taking selfies of course is another thing, people these days do like them but the WTC Memorial really isn't the place I agree.

I was the same as I only visited the memorial and I was surprised the effect it had, I think it makes it a lot more real seeing it in person.
 

CarltonA

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There is a need to be discrete and respectful when visiting places such as Cromwell Street. Imagine if you lived there and grockles were turning up and taking photos. My house caught fire one afternoon when I was at work. I arrived home in the early evening to a very nasty surprise. Fire fighters were clambering about in the ruins and I had to remove what was left of my belongings whilst a crowd of onlookers gawped from across the road. I'm sure I don't need to emphasise just how pi**ed off about the situation I was.
 
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Cowley

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There is a need to be discrete and respectful when visiting places such as Cromwell Street. Imagine if you lived there and grockles were turning up and taking photos. My house caught fire one afternoon when I was at work. I arrived home in the early evening to a very nasty surprise. Fire fighters were clambering about in the ruins and I had to remove what was left of my belongings whilst a crowd of onlookers gawped from across the road. I sure I don't need to emphasise just how pi**ed off about the situation I was.
The thought of that made me shudder Carlton.
 

hiredgun

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I think its 'human nature' to be interested in all of the above. Its how you conduct yourself, while looking, that matters??
 

Andrew Ford

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My parents visited Ground Zero, as it was then called, about a year after 911.

Apparently, it was just a big, eerie hole in the ground.

But even my dad said it was a very sobering place and he didn’t feel comfortable enough to take any photos.
 

lyndhurst25

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I used to know a lad who would offer to take friends visiting his house on an unofficial Ripper tour of the area, visiting the sites of the murders. He was quite knowledgable about the case and gave an interesting talk. We are talking West Yorkshire here, not Whitechapel, and in the late 1980s. Too soon? Probably.
 

telstarbox

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My colleague took a trip to Gloucester yesterday and while there made a side trip to the 'house of horrors' to take a few photos. Even though the house has been demolished I found it frankly distasteful but he didn't think anything of it.
Do you think it's right to visit murder sites?
Yes .
 

telstarbox

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Visiting the 9/11 Memorial Museum made me feel uncomfortable. Not the exhibits because it was interesting to see up close an important part of world history. What got me was how much money was being made from the whole thing and people taking smiley selfies like they were at Alton Towers.
I thought the souvenir stall there was the most American thing ever.
 

Ianno87

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I thought the souvenir stall there was the most American thing ever.

What sort of things was it selling out of interest?

I recall Auschwitz having a shop - but definitely one in keeping with the site (selling history books, that sort of thing).
 
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