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DB Seat Reservation refund

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joncombe

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I recently made a few journeys with Deutsche Bahn, travelling on the ICE trains. To be honest I was a little disappointed, experiencing delays on every train I took, as well as broken air conditioning on one, making for a very hot and uncomfortable journey.

However in one case I had not initially reserved a seat when booking the train, but on checking the times a few days before departure I saw the train was now shown as heavily booked. So I decided to make a seat reservation on the train my ticket was specified for (they are not included automatically, at least not on the cheaper tickets but can be booked separately), in order to ensure a seat. I think this cost an extra €4.50.

However when I came to make the journey my reservation was for carriage 4. The lowest number carriage on the train was 24 (going up to 44 I think!). In addition all the seats on the train showed as having no reservations on the display.

It turns out the train I had booked (ICE603) was cancelled and another train with a different train number had been substituted at Leipzig (or possibly before), running to the same times as the train I had booked to continue south to Nuremberg and Munich.

I had a rather difficult conversation with the guard due to my limited German and his limited English the gist of which was that I could sit in any free seat and claim a refund on my reservation (which I had shown him) since the carriage and seat number specified on my ticket was not actually on the train.

OK it's not a lot of money but anyway, does anyone know how you can do that? The information I could find on the DB website suggested you have to fill in a form and post it to Frankfurt, though this mostly seemed to be compensation for delays which was not the issue in my case (none of the delays were over 1 hour).
 
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farci

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I had similar issues with DB recently - cancelled trains and inability to use my first class reservation. I would like refunds so can anyone suggest an online way of making a claim?
 

Starmill

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Have you checked if the Passenger Rights Claim Form covers refunds for seat reservations which aren't provided? This is the form which you post to the service center in Frankfurt, as you have alluded to.

I don't think they make it terribly easy to claim refunds and compensation. In particular you will probably need to cover the cost of postage yourself.
 

Spoorslag '70

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I take it that you are no longer in Germany.

I would look into sending DB an e-mail(to [email protected], supprisingly the one I had in mind but couldn't find as being correct earlier) or a letter (to Servicecenter Fahrgastrechte, 60647 Frankfurt (M).), explaining the situation and stating your transaction number, which should be somewhere on the reservation (or even better include your reservation). That should be doable in English. You don't need to use a form (cf. https://www.bahn.de/p/view/service/buchung/stornierung/index.shtml).

For further reference, it's best to go to a ticket office as soon as possible. They should be able to give the €4,50 back in cash within a couple of minutes (looking it up on the system, letting you sign a form etc.). It's much faster than the way via the "Service"center (they usualy take a couple of week to even react).
 
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30907

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Quick Google result.

.... Die Erstattung von Sitzplatzreservierungen erfolgt ohne Formular. Dafür ist der Fahrkartenservice der Deutschen Bahn zuständig.
Einfach die Auftragsnummer des Tickets und die Bitte um Erstattung wegen Einsatz eines Ersatzzuges per E-Mail an:

You dont need to fill in a form. Simply mail the reference number of your reservation transaction (thats the 6 character one) and ask for a refund of your reservation because a substitute train was used. You will get an e-voucher.

[email protected]

Any other comments try

kundenservice@....
 

joncombe

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Thanks both for the messages, I will try that. I'm not in Germany now no. I hadn't thought to go to the ticket office, because I booked online and I got the impresion from the guard that a refund in this case was automatic, but it seems that is not the case. I've telephoned the Deutsche Bahn English line and they also suggested sending an email so I'll try that.

I don't want a voucher as I currently have no plans to return to Germany so I don't know when it will be used (and if the vouchers have an expiry too). I paid by credit card online so if that doesn't work I'll ask the Credit Card company to do a charge back on the basis the service paid for (a seat reservation) was not provided.
 

Railman10

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Quick Google result.

.... Die Erstattung von Sitzplatzreservierungen erfolgt ohne Formular. Dafür ist der Fahrkartenservice der Deutschen Bahn zuständig.
Einfach die Auftragsnummer des Tickets und die Bitte um Erstattung wegen Einsatz eines Ersatzzuges per E-Mail an:

You dont need to fill in a form. Simply mail the reference number of your reservation transaction (thats the 6 character one) and ask for a refund of your reservation because a substitute train was used. You will get an e-voucher.

[email protected]

Any other comments try

kundenservice@....
Out of interest, has anyone ever received a reply from DB? Apart from automatic acknowledgements and being told that my message was being passed to the appropriate department, I’ve had nothing by way of actual answers to queries recently about purchase of DB Cards.
 

joncombe

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Out of interest, has anyone ever received a reply from DB? Apart from automatic acknowledgements and being told that my message was being passed to the appropriate department, I’ve had nothing by way of actual answers to queries recently about purchase of DB Cards.
I haven't yet.
 

joncombe

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I haven't yet.
I haven't and I've given up. Phoned credit card company. Explained situation. Money refunded with no quibbles. It shouldn't be hard to refund money paid for something that wasn't done (a seat reservation where no seat was reserved) but it seems from my own and the experience of others here that Deutsche Bahn direct you to email but then don't reply. I'm surprised the refunds aren't automatic in this case. Not impressed.
 

Railman10

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I haven't and I've given up. Phoned credit card company. Explained situation. Money refunded with no quibbles. It shouldn't be hard to refund money paid for something that wasn't done (a seat reservation where no seat was reserved) but it seems from my own and the experience of others here that Deutsche Bahn direct you to email but then don't reply. I'm surprised the refunds aren't automatic in this case. Not impressed.
DB really have lost the plot! I’m still waiting for the DB Cards I ordered despite numerous e-mails and telephone calls. My advice is not to bother trying to resolve problems on line. Pursuing your loss via your credit card company seems like an effective alternative.
 

paddington

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For an amount of €4.50, it is possible the credit card company just paid the refund themselves, as the administration costs of a dispute might be a lot higher.

It is also possible that they just deducted €4.50 from the amount they will remit to DB and it would be up to DB's finance department to challenge it. DB may have accepted that this could happen in its merchant agreement.
 

joncombe

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Well 4.5 months after I sent the email requesting a refund I finally got a reply from Deutsche Bahn. I'm told I'll be credited a refund "in due course". I wonder how long that will take. Also not sure where I legally stand now since the card company has already refunded. I've previously been told they can match up when this happens so I don't need to do anything, but I don't know for sure. Though equally people shouldn't have to wait such a length of time to be refunded for something not provided.
 

farci

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Well 4.5 months after I sent the email requesting a refund I finally got a reply from Deutsche Bahn. I'm told I'll be credited a refund "in due course". I wonder how long that will take. Also not sure where I legally stand now since the card company has already refunded. I've previously been told they can match up when this happens so I don't need to do anything, but I don't know for sure. Though equally people shouldn't have to wait such a length of time to be refunded for something not provided.
I'll see your 4.5 months and raise you my 5.5 months for a cancelled train refund for €50. Although I sent all the details in a June email all I got back one week ago was a request to fill in a form. Makes TOC customer service in UK positively, er, - positive!
 

duesselmartin

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Usually I get a refund very quickly, but I live in Germany.
For a reservation I personally would not bother so no experience with that.
With the reservation in coach 4, but actual coaches in the 20s, it sounds like an ICE 1 Set was swapped for an ICE3 or 4?.
 

joncombe

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For a reservation I personally would not bother so no experience with that.
Point of principal! I'm not paying for something I didn't receive.[/QUOTE]
With the reservation in coach 4, but actual coaches in the 20s, it sounds like an ICE 1 Set was swapped for an ICE3 or 4?.

Quite possibly. I'm not an expert on German trains I believe but I believe what happened is the train was cancelled further north and another set was substituted to resume the service from further on and no seat reservations had been made on that second train. But I don't know enough about German trains to know what type of ICE it was I'm afraid.
 

duesselmartin

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First of all, sorry you had a bad experience. Delays and substituted trains are sadly too common.
There has been a lot of underfunding in the hope to increase profit and that backfired.

I hope it wont put you off coming back some day again.
 

YorkshireBear

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It is a shame. When I went round Germany in the summer everyone back home was like oh I bet all the trains were on time. I sadly had to tell them not and that most were late. Got two trips in January booked, cologne to Berlin. Then Berlin to frankfurt for the flight home. Given myself 2 and a bit hour leeway before check in closes, so fingers crossed!
 

duesselmartin

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When you stop at my home station Duisburg look out the window. Again a place that defys stereotypes. More of a lost place than a Hauptbahnhof.

My suggestion. Take your time, leave ample time for connection, keep your sense of humour. A journey should be an adventure. Don't be put off.
 

paddington

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Well 4.5 months after I sent the email requesting a refund I finally got a reply from Deutsche Bahn. I'm told I'll be credited a refund "in due course". I wonder how long that will take. Also not sure where I legally stand now since the card company has already refunded. I've previously been told they can match up when this happens so I don't need to do anything, but I don't know for sure. Though equally people shouldn't have to wait such a length of time to be refunded for something not provided.

You don't need to do anything.

If they said they would be able to tell that the bank has already refunded, then you should be able to take them at their word. It is not your responsibility if someone screws up again and you get a double refund. If it was a UK company that didn't provide the product and double refunded, then technically they have 6 years to reclaim the erroneous refund, thus you should keep the amount available to be reclaimed. Not sure how it works in Germany. Theoretically DB could send you an invoice to which you can respond with your card details, but nobody is going to bother for €4.50.

If the bank refunded you from its own funds as a goodwill gesture, rather than charging DB (or withholding €4.50 from the amount they remitted to DB's bank) then you can keep the goodwill gesture without feeling bad about it, or you can waste hours of your life calling them in a futile attempt to pay them back.
 
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