Really!? Where have you been? I’m not even interested in the mechanics of trains, but I could tell you that various posters have put it down to shoddy maintenance and care from HT and the depot they are serviced at, transmission because it was new and the undercarriage because everything was fitted so closely together as CAF had little experience for units such as these.
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Hull Trains 180 problems again
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0726 from King‘s Cross is cancelled today, 26/6. Passengers are being directed to the 0730 and 0733 LNER services. I’m on the 0706 to York where it was specifically announced that HT tickets for the cancelled train would not be valid.
This can’t be for capacity reasons, the 0706 is rarely busy (hence it being my train of choice for cheap advance trips to York). Perhaps it is to avoid HT passengers arriving earlier than they would have done on their own service.
I do wonder how the ticket acceptance works in these situations. Do Hull Trains pay LNER a flat amount or do their train managers report back the number of HT only tickets they see?
This can’t be for capacity reasons, the 0706 is rarely busy (hence it being my train of choice for cheap advance trips to York). Perhaps it is to avoid HT passengers arriving earlier than they would have done on their own service.
I do wonder how the ticket acceptance works in these situations. Do Hull Trains pay LNER a flat amount or do their train managers report back the number of HT only tickets they see?
HamworthyGoods
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I’m afraid I can’t other than the phone number for Angel Trains.
In a nutshell there was a need to mitigate against non PRM and droplight fitted stock, the only spare 125mph stock at the moment is 180s...
krus_aragon
Established Member
I know CAF are the current whipping-boy of cheap trains, but isn't the class 180 an Alstom product?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
is this personal knowledge of shoddy work? What is this based on? If it is because of maintenance why is that happening?
The problems could well be down to design / maintenance / politics / other but it's certainly not up to the experts on this forum to decide!
Unless there's an awful lot of wasted talent here. Has anyone here ever considered getting a job with the maintainer to turn the situation around?
I really don't know why you're stringing this out.
You either heard it as a big fat rumour from a guy down the pub, or you have a better source than "call Angel Trains".
It's an easy question:
Where have you heard/seen it written that Stagecoach also had the same plan to use the Class 180s.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Probably from an individual that isn't meant to be handing out such information, or wouldn't want people coming after them for more info that they can't divulge. There's no reason to keep hounding people for that if they aren't willing to say who it was.
HamworthyGoods
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Thank you! The reference to calling Angel Trains was meant to be tongue in cheek.
Those of us who work in the industry can share snippets at times (which I think is appreciated on this forum?) but we can’t always reveal a link to our source which in this case is Angel Trains.
If you prefer only having sources to which we can link documents etc we are quite happy to stop sharing bits of information till it moves into the public domain.
HG.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
how does that compare versus the HST and class 91?
I can only speak for myself but I'm much happier for people to leak frequently and often inside bits and pieces than to not admit to anything unless they can source it.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Most of us know to treat anything they read on a forum as gospel unless it's clearly stated elsewhere but the snippets of information that seep through are still useful for getting an idea of what's going on behind the scenes. After seeing how forum posts compare to the ultimate reality of various projects you can get a feel of what is / isn't likely to come to pass and that has nothing to do with the integrity of the users that post that information, or indeed where they heard it.
samuelmorris
Established Member
In the January issue of Modern Railways, LNER HSTs and 91s were both posting around 20,000. (and for being a longer train too, whatever that's worth). EMT HSTs were also showing similar, 25000 for that period but an annual average still below 15000. By comparison, the 222s posted 40,000.
hooverboy
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would seem to me that in this case, Abellio need a good strong clause in the contract stating:
i) due to MTBF being vastly inferior to our present HST fleet(almost 50% mileage per fault), we want a VERY reduced lease price.
ii)in case of failure, angel trains shall provide a "hot spare" from a pool of immediately serviceable trains,upon request...audits may be undertaken by the operator upon the lessor to validate both fleet availability and service condition of the pool of additional stock retained by the lessor.
iii)in case of insufficent stock/inadequate operating condition of the lessors retained equipment, the lessor shall provide the operator with financial recompense or alternative/reduced tariffs on existing loans relative to the period the above stock is not available
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samuelmorris
Established Member
It's probably the opposite, they'd require so much work they'll probably cost more.
0726 ex KGX cancelled again
0706 also cancelled. KGX staff arguing they were running. Then sayin, oh actually no they aren’t when shown HTs own website.
Which means a mess coming back as well. My partner got out of bed at 0430 to catch the 0706. She has a full stresssful day and is currently running round KGX Like a headless chicken trying to find a member of staff who knows what ticket to buy and what train to get. No one on the platform staff has a clue What trains tickets are valid on, what they aren’t, whether Hull Trains connections are working if she changes at Doncaster.
She has to make an 1100 meeting. And Hull Trains are totally unhelpful. No HT staff, no information. LNER saying nothing and knowing nothing. Why would anyone use the trains when it’s as inept as this. Hull Trains knew this was a mess. But have zero contingency or planning.
Does anyone here in the know know which diagrams for the return will be cancelled as a knock on. I need to get her home today.....as well as there? She will be raging and angry at having so much time and effort wasted by HT, who clearly did know they were going to be a mess. And Dr Pinot may not be enough....
0706 also cancelled. KGX staff arguing they were running. Then sayin, oh actually no they aren’t when shown HTs own website.
Which means a mess coming back as well. My partner got out of bed at 0430 to catch the 0706. She has a full stresssful day and is currently running round KGX Like a headless chicken trying to find a member of staff who knows what ticket to buy and what train to get. No one on the platform staff has a clue What trains tickets are valid on, what they aren’t, whether Hull Trains connections are working if she changes at Doncaster.
She has to make an 1100 meeting. And Hull Trains are totally unhelpful. No HT staff, no information. LNER saying nothing and knowing nothing. Why would anyone use the trains when it’s as inept as this. Hull Trains knew this was a mess. But have zero contingency or planning.
Does anyone here in the know know which diagrams for the return will be cancelled as a knock on. I need to get her home today.....as well as there? She will be raging and angry at having so much time and effort wasted by HT, who clearly did know they were going to be a mess. And Dr Pinot may not be enough....
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In that case, there's no point in saying it at all.
I could just as easily say that Hull Trains are looking to employ redundant 365s and loco haul them the last leg, because that's what I half heard from some guy on the internet. Unless you can cite a source (or explain why you can't), it's hard to believe.
I'm hounding because I want the truth.
Also because I don't believe Stagecoach have released any details of their bid (can't find any other info on any railway forums/groups I'm connected to).
Also because if they have, I'd like to know what else they planned.
Also because if they didn't release any details, why choose this single one?
It's not about calling the OP out to be a liar, it's about being interested in other information that the OP may not have written but I might be interested in.
The North Briton
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The 0706 (LNER) service was not cancelled (but was not accepting HT passengers in any event). The details are on the HT website, but you have to do a bit of digging to find it.
Hilariously, they have attributed the fact that the HST diagram is not serving Howden or Beverley to ‘a train not stopping at a station it was supposed to’!
43096
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PRM compliant 125mph stock is not exactly a lessee’s market, so I expect Angel would say “fine, but the price is doubled. Your choice.”
HullRailMan
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The 0706 isn’t HT. the 0726 is, I too was wanting that train.
Alternative options were on Journeycheck and twitter as well as the departure board at Kings Cross. The 0730/bus combo isn’t too bad, last time I got it I arrived in Hull 20 mins behind schedule. It beats waiting 50 mins at Doncaster for the next northern, the 0730 just misses the connection.
There were HT staff at Kings Cross, I talked to them.
The only return train cancelled is the 1912, as stated on journey check.
I’d politely suggest your wife needs to do less running round like a headless chicken and more of absorbing the information that is readily available online and on the departure boards.
HamworthyGoods
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The source was from a conversation with Angel Trains over what rolling stock was available on the market to potentially lease. 180s were very much off the market for reasons outlined in original post, nothing to do with anything Stagecoach had or hadn’t released - it’s very unusual for a loosing bidder to reveal its plans. Leasing companies can be slightly more likely to (often inadvertently) reveal information.
As for not hearing this anywhere else, I refer you to a quote from Tony Miles a well respected railway journalist who has also made a similar comment on another forum.
Yep. She misled me about the 0706. That was LNER and change at Donte Carlo. She was however adamant there were no staff around. And she’s usually pretty observant but wouldn’t have gone all the way round to the other side of KGX to find a desk. She’d have looked for platform staff near where the trains are supposed to depart. And was train side of the barriers As She actually went to sit on the earlier 0703 to Leeds and said she’d sort it out with them on the train. I pointed out LNER are well aware that HT is a shambles and are hot on gaining chunky excess fares for using the wrong trains. At about 0659 LNER announced that HT tickets were not valid on it. So she got off it. Without much of a smile or good humour.
Yes, she was stressed. But she’s a normal passenger. With a busy and stressful day ahead of her. HT knew the 0726 wasn’t running. Where was the large notice on the platform to tell passengers what to do. Oh, and on the 0730, they announced HT tickets were not valid on that as well. Even though they were. I presume that was an automated announcement.
As for a coach. How are you supposed to work on a laptop...... you can’t. No privacy, no room. And you’ve paid for a train ticket.
ForTheLoveOf
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Whilst this is quite clearly the feeling in everyone's mind, and whilst the vast majority of train tickets are fulfilled by trains carrying people around, there is no strict entitlement to travel by train when you hold a train ticket. The TOCs can transport you by any means they like, as long as it gets you there on time.
Of course I don't deny that it's significantly disappointing to encounter a cancellation followed by bustitution!
Especially when they KNEW this was going to be the case. Collect the premium revenue for the train and offer a bus.
Sadly this is part of the railway manipulating rules. To suit itself. But let’s be honest, passengers are only a revenue source for many on the railways.
Sadly this is part of the railway manipulating rules. To suit itself. But let’s be honest, passengers are only a revenue source for many on the railways.
One 180 delivered to Hull from Crofton this morning.
However at the same time one of the HST sets is making its way to St Philips Marsh.
I realise they are ex GWR sets but surely arrangements could be made for them to be serviced at Neville Hill!
However at the same time one of the HST sets is making its way to St Philips Marsh.
I realise they are ex GWR sets but surely arrangements could be made for them to be serviced at Neville Hill!
a_c_skinner
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I cannot help thinking this is a silly state of affairs. HT use HST sets, its current stock is plainly highly unsatisfactory and there are a good number of HST sets simply idle which were running only a few weeks ago.
I believe Neville Hill was considered but is too full with it's own rolling stock to accommodate them.
cjmillsnun
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I do wonder how they were able to do that. They are an open access operator and should not be subject to the whim of government about stock provision.
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