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321s to Norwich
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According to the current Class 321 diagrams the only working is
1P48 1702 Liverpool Street to Norwich Monday to Friday 12 cars
1P65 1930 Norwich to Liverpool Street Monday to Friday 12 cars
The 1130 Liverpool Street to Norwich is not in the class 321 diagrams and is shown on Real Time Trains as a Class 90 loco
The class 321 diagrams are available to members of the UKModernEMU yahoo group.
Hope this helps.
1P48 1702 Liverpool Street to Norwich Monday to Friday 12 cars
1P65 1930 Norwich to Liverpool Street Monday to Friday 12 cars
The 1130 Liverpool Street to Norwich is not in the class 321 diagrams and is shown on Real Time Trains as a Class 90 loco
The class 321 diagrams are available to members of the UKModernEMU yahoo group.
Hope this helps.
Also covering
5P23 07+20 Colchester C.S.D. to Norwich
1P23 0903 Norwich to London Liverpool Street
1P24 1130 London Liverpool Street to Norwich
1P43 1400 Norwich to London Liverpool Street
1P44 1630 London Liverpool Street to Norwich
5P46 18+54 Norwich to Norwich T.C.
5F24 20+38 Norwich T.C. to Colchester C.S.D.
due to a 90+Mk3 set being needed for the additional "Norwich in 90" services.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/london-to-norwich-90-min-timings.178937/
Class 170101
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Indeed extra units supposedly
Bishopstone
Established Member
Obviously no buffet, but is trolley catering provided on the 321-worked services, and if so, in just one of the units or all?
ForTheLoveOf
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No, you get nowt! And when a substitution happened on a service for which someone I know had booked 1st Class, with catering advertised at the time of booking, the staff at one GA station suggested they should be grateful the service was still running at all, and that if they waited for the next train to get the advertised catering they would need to buy a new ticket.
Bishopstone
Established Member
No, you get nowt! And when a substitution happened on a service for which someone I know had booked 1st Class, with catering advertised at the time of booking, the staff at one GA station suggested they should be grateful the service was still running at all, and that if they waited for the next train to get the advertised catering they would need to buy a new ticket.
Thanks. Packed lunch it is, then, if I do a Dusty Bin to Norwich during my summer hols.
I travelled on that service a few weeks back (the first week of the Norwich in 90 service) and it was a 321 but the implication was (from the apologies being broadcast on the station and on the train) that then it was still booked to be worked by a hauled set.
Yes, because 'Norwich in 90' is booked to be worked by a pair of 755s. 321s fill 90+Mk3 which fill 2x755.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I believe Greater Anglia have a rule against using trolleys on anything but the LHCS at present. I'm sure a number of months ago when a 3-car 170 substituted for a Mk3 set on the GEML, someone stated that stadf weren't allowed to use trolleys on the 170s anymore.
dk1
Veteran Member
There was once a ruling that if 321 substitution took place on GA that a trolley could be placed onboard only if there where 2 members of catering staff allocated to it in either unit as no suitable location to store unattended but they are not now to be put on at all. Class 170s For a while where static only due to risk of tipping in the very uneven vestibules but again suffer from no safe storage area so this has been stopped too.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
And this no trolleys. I assume it's just the Norwich and Stansted units that will have a trolley service? Not the Flirts.
dk1
Veteran Member
The Norwich & Stansted units are the Flirts. Catering as now will only be provided on the Intercity services between Norwich & Liverpool Street. Only the 745/0 sets will have a Cafe bar.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I meant the wee 3/4-car bi-mode Flirts, sorry.
dk1
Veteran Member
No worries. No there are no plans for any catering on the bimodes. I think the power pack would scupper through movement & again there is no secure stowage area.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Thank you for confirming that. I knew the Stansteds were losing First Class, but I'm surprised they won't have a trolley.
306024
Established Member
Even with the most careful trolley driver it doesn’t take much to damage the train pushing the trolley through. Stansted Express used to have catering, the fact it now doesn’t presumably means there’s no money to be made on a 45 minute journey.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
What sort of damage can the trolley do to the train?
306024
Established Member
The moulding that hold the seats can easily be dented or cracked. Back in the day there was a short lived experiment of a catering trolley on a class 312 on the GEML. The seat housings were made of wood, cue lots of splintering, so that didn’t last long.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Well that makes sense I suppose, but you'd think that the seats would be better designed and certainly other operators seem to manage.
dk1
Veteran Member
When the 175s where brand new I took a spin along the N.Wales coast to give them a go. As someone who worked on a maintainence depot at the time I was horrified to see the female trolley member pushing it & bashing almost every other arm rest as she went. No idea why she thought it better than pulling or that she seemed totally unaware how awkward she was making her job. It was painful to witness.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I thought standard practice was to pull them.
dk1
Veteran Member
Or M&S. They often have yellow compost stickers too.If you find yourself booked for a 321 from Norwich, I can recommend the Co-Op shop on Norwich Station, they often have great bargains available, in fact, why use it anyway.
Those trains, along with the 06:25 down and 22:00 up, have frequently been worked by 321s on an ad hoc basis for several years.
The southern slam door units were trashed by the trolleys. Dents and scrapes everywhere.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Didn't realise they had trolleys on those sort of trains, thought it was an integrated buffet car or nothing.
I'm guessing that would be on things like the 4-CIGs and other more long-distance units as opposed to the more commuter-orientated units such as 4-VEPs.
Saperstein
Member
I’ve never seen one on SR MK1 stock but I remembered this video featuring a reconstruction of an incident on the Hastings to Charing X line involving a 411, a catering trolley and a signal going back to danger.
Saperstein
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Trolleys turned up when the abolished the 4BIGs. Trains with trolleys were booked for CIGs but VEPs sometimes appeared instead.
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