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Summoned to Court for using an invalid 16+ oyster card

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SCX2K

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I am currently 18 turning 19 next week and in uni.
Back in Feb i was caught by a bus inspector on my way to uni using an invalid 16+ oyster card that was to expire in 2020, where as a 16+ oyster card by TFL would expire in 2019. The card was taken from me and the inspector said i would be summoned to court.
I got this oyster card from someone i had met in my unis induction week and i was oblivious to question if the card was legit. He told me if i paid him £20 on top of the application costs he could extend the oyster by one year. Yes, very stupid of me.

I had no knowledge that the card was invalid when i was caught.

A week or so later i received a letter from tfl that said something along the lines to explain the circumstances and plead guilty or not and may be taken further into court. I replied by email saying that i was at fault for not knowing the card was invalid and i would take full responsibility and pay any fine that they would give me.
No response until today where i received a court summon from TFL.

I'm fine paying the fine that they would give me, but i dont really want to have a criminal conviction.

This situation has gotten me really stressed and i really need advice on what to do. I really do not want a criminal conviction/record.
 
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ForTheLoveOf

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I am currently 18 turning 19 next week and in uni.
Back in Feb i was caught by a bus inspector on my way to uni using an invalid 16+ oyster card that was to expire in 2020, where as a 16+ oyster card by TFL would expire in 2019. The card was taken from me and the inspector said i would be summoned to court.
I got this oyster card from someone i had met in my unis induction week and i was oblivious to question if the card was legit. He told me if i paid him £20 on top of the application costs he could extend the oyster by one year. Yes, very stupid of me.

I had no knowledge that the card was invalid when i was caught.

A week or so later i received a letter from tfl that said something along the lines to explain the circumstances and plead guilty or not and may be taken further into court. I replied by email saying that i was at fault for not knowing the card was invalid and i would take full responsibility and pay any fine that they would give me.
No response until today where i received a court summon from TFL.

I'm fine paying the fine that they would give me, but i dont really want to have a criminal conviction.

This situation has gotten me really stressed and i really need advice on what to do. I really do not want a criminal conviction/record.
Unfortunately in circumstances such as these it's highly unlikely that you will be able to avoid prosecution and subsequently a conviction. Did you seriously think that paying "some guy" £20 to extend the validity of your Oyster card was a legitimate dealing? TfL are going to take onr look at what it appears to be - deliberate evasion - and decide to prosecute, in line with their usual policy of going hard on intentional evasion.
 

najaB

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You are going to have a hard time reconciling this:
I got this oyster card from someone i had met in my unis induction week and i was oblivious to question if the card was legit.
With this:
He told me if i paid him £20 on top of the application costs he could extend the oyster by one year.
That is so obviously dodgy that anyone would question if it was above board. Avoiding court and a conviction depends on your ability to convincingly explain why you did not.
 

Mathew S

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I am currently 18 turning 19 next week and in uni.
Back in Feb i was caught by a bus inspector on my way to uni using an invalid 16+ oyster card that was to expire in 2020, where as a 16+ oyster card by TFL would expire in 2019. The card was taken from me and the inspector said i would be summoned to court.
I got this oyster card from someone i had met in my unis induction week and i was oblivious to question if the card was legit. He told me if i paid him £20 on top of the application costs he could extend the oyster by one year. Yes, very stupid of me.

I had no knowledge that the card was invalid when i was caught.

A week or so later i received a letter from tfl that said something along the lines to explain the circumstances and plead guilty or not and may be taken further into court. I replied by email saying that i was at fault for not knowing the card was invalid and i would take full responsibility and pay any fine that they would give me.
No response until today where i received a court summon from TFL.

I'm fine paying the fine that they would give me, but i dont really want to have a criminal conviction.

This situation has gotten me really stressed and i really need advice on what to do. I really do not want a criminal conviction/record.
As @najaB has hinted, I would say you need to think very carefully about whether or not you had any genuine reason that a court would believe not to realise that what you did was seriously, seriously dodgy. Simply being, "oblivious to question if the card was legit," would, I would suggest, be seen by a court as rather implausible.

What offence does the summons allege that you have committed?
 

SCX2K

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As @najaB has hinted, I would say you need to think very carefully about whether or not you had any genuine reason that a court would believe not to realise that what you did was seriously, seriously dodgy. Simply being, "oblivious to question if the card was legit," would, I would suggest, be seen by a court as rather implausible.

What offence does the summons allege that you have committed?
Section 25(3) of the public passenger vehicles act 1981
 

SCX2K

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Unfortunately in circumstances such as these it's highly unlikely that you will be able to avoid prosecution and subsequently a conviction. Did you seriously think that paying "some guy" £20 to extend the validity of your Oyster card was a legitimate dealing? TfL are going to take onr look at what it appears to be - deliberate evasion - and decide to prosecute, in line with their usual policy of going hard on intentional evasion.
The guy i got it from showed me that he was working at TFL and showed me that he was doing my application on the offical TFL page. He had only stated that i could extend the oyster by one year towards the end and this is why i didn't question whether or not the extension was legit.
 

Mathew S

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The guy i got it from showed me that he was working at TFL and showed me that he was doing my application on the offical TFL page. He had only stated that i could extend the oyster by one year towards the end and this is why i didn't question whether or not the extension was legit.
Do you have any proof of this? Do you know the name of this person? Was this something that happened at their place of work, or was it on a laptop in your kitchen? Do you have a screenshot of the website where this transaction was carried out, showing the URL? Do you have a proof-of-purchase email, from an official email address, showing the expiry date of 2020?
I ask all of that because, in the absence of that kind of proof, I can't conceive of a court believing that you didn't know that your ticket was invalid.

To be blunt, it sounds to me like you have been involved in what - to an objective bystander - appears to be a deliberate attempt to defraud TfL. If I were you, I would be considering myself lucky only to have been charged with not producing a valid ticket.
 

nuts & bolts

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This could go a different way if your friend at uni who possesses a staff Oyster card or possibly a '(staff) dependants' Oyster card is to be investigated - Explaining how you obtained the Oyster card.
 
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bionic

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This could a different way if your friend at uni who possesses a staff Oyster card or possibly a '(staff) dependants' Oyster card is to be investigated - Explaing how you obtained the Oyster card.

I can't imagine any genuine TFL staff member, even the dodgiest ones, would bother hanging around a university trying to talk gullible students into handing over £20 for an invalid oyster card. Even if he was a genuine staff member I don't think it's any defence. If someone who worked in a shop said they could get you a Rolex watch if you hang about by the back door and give them £20 for it you'd still be done for handling stolen goods.
 

najaB

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If someone who worked in a shop said they could get you a Rolex watch if you hang about by the back door and give them £20 for it you'd still be done for handling stolen goods.
To be fair to the OP we don't yet know the circumstances surrounding the transaction yet. It might have been a practiced scam...
 

some bloke

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A main question might be how you came to believe a card meant for 16-17-year-old "children" was valid when you were over 18.

Edit: Ah - because the TfL headline doesn't cover 18-year-olds resident in London and in full-time education.
 
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nuts & bolts

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I can't imagine any genuine TFL staff member, even the dodgiest ones, would bother hanging around a university trying to talk gullible students into handing over £20 for an invalid oyster card. Even if he was a genuine staff member I don't think it's any defence. If someone who worked in a shop said they could get you a Rolex watch if you hang about by the back door and give them £20 for it you'd still be done for handling stolen goods.

I agree, the card may have been lost or stolen and there maybe other victims as in the OP.
 

some bloke

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It's possible for people sometimes to be naive, and not to think things through.

This situation has gotten me really stressed and i really need advice on what to do. I really do not want a criminal conviction/record.

One way to less stress may be to accept the possibility of a conviction.

If it's just for not having a valid ticket, it's more like speeding than theft, so for most jobs isn't as big a deal as people may think.

If you're fined, the conviction is "spent" after a year, which means that for most jobs you can lawfully answer "no" if an employer asks whether you have been convicted (and you don't have any others).
https://www.gov.uk/exoffenders-and-employment
[There's an error on the page about the "rehab period" for people under 18, but that doesn't apply to you - I mention it in case someone it does apply to sees this in future.]

I got this oyster card from someone

Do you mean it arrived through the post after he filled in the application?

If you need a photocard web account to apply, perhaps that might have information of interest.


I replied by email saying that i was at fault for not knowing the card was invalid and i would take full responsibility and pay any fine that they would give me.

Would you like to post your reply here, with identifying details removed? It might help people advise you.

One thing I'm wondering is what you told them, if anything, about how it ended up saying 2020.

The terms and conditions do say it's for the academic year 2018-19:
https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/16-plus-zip-oyster-photocard-terms-and-conditions.pdf

If you gave the person £20 cash, did you have any thoughts about what they were going to do with it?
 

some bloke

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What offence does the summons allege that you have committed?
Section 25(3) of the public passenger vehicles act 1981
That's an enabling paragraph rather than describing a specific act/omission which constitutes an offence.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/14/section/25

It refers to regulations - does the summons say which?
Perhaps it might be useful if you upload a photo of the summons (again with identifying details removed).
 
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SCX2K

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That's an enabling paragraph rather than describing a specific act/omission which constitutes an offence.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/14/section/25

It refers to regulations - does the summons say which?
Perhaps it might be useful if you upload a photo of the summons (again with identifying details removed).
Regulation 7(2)(b)(ii) of the public service vehicles.

If i do get convicted under this regulation, would this conviction become spent after 12months?

I've been reading some other threads and was wondering if i should try settle this out of court but have no idea how to do so and if it gets me out of a conviction.

Also, thanks to everyone for their advice an contribution. This case has gotten me really stressed out and this is helping to relieve some stress.
 

Llanigraham

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Reg 7 (2) (b) (ii) :

Save as provided in paragraph (3), every passenger on a vehicle being used for the carriage of passengers at separate fares shall–

(a)declare, if so requested by the driver, inspector or conductor, the journey which he intends to take, is taking or has taken in the vehicle;

(b)where the vehicle is being operated by the driver without a conductor–

(i)save as provided in (ii) below, immediately on boarding the vehicle, pay the fare for the journey he intends to take to the driver or, where appropriate, by inserting in any fare-collection equipment provided on the vehicle the money or token required to pay that fare; or

(ii)if otherwise directed by the driver, an inspector or a notice displayed on the vehicle, shall pay the fare for his journey in accordance with the direction;
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Regulation 7(2)(b)(ii) of the public service vehicles.

If i do get convicted under this regulation, would this conviction become spent after 12months?

I've been reading some other threads and was wondering if i should try settle this out of court but have no idea how to do so and if it gets me out of a conviction.

Also, thanks to everyone for their advice an contribution. This case has gotten me really stressed out and this is helping to relieve some stress.
Yes, any conviction of this sort would become spent after 12 months at the latest. It may be that the conviction isn't actually noted on your "criminal record" (which is a loose term in any case).
 

nuts & bolts

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Regulation 7(2)(b)(ii) of the public service vehicles.

If i do get convicted under this regulation, would this conviction become spent after 12months?

I've been reading some other threads and was wondering if i should try settle this out of court but have no idea how to do so and if it gets me out of a conviction.

Also, thanks to everyone for their advice an contribution. This case has gotten me really stressed out and this is helping to relieve some stress.

You really need to engage a solicitor for the court to see you as a scam ‘victim’. I doubt very much an out of court settlement will be an option. This is a TfL (bus) prosecution.
 

some bloke

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Regulation 7(2)(b)(ii) of the public service vehicles.

Do you mean these 1990 regulations?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1020/regulation/7/made

The relevant offence there looks like just not paying the fare for one journey, so as has been said above, not nearly as serious as it might have been.

It's important to see this in context: you could have ended up with a lot of free travel that you weren't entitled to, which would be seen as a potential massive loss.

If the prosecution is for travelling once without a valid ticket, that's cause for a sigh of relief.

The reason you can be confident that the conviction would be spent after a year is that it would result in a fine.

As the government page cited above says, the "rehab period" depends on the punishment (rather than the offence) - page cited here:

If you're fined, the conviction is "spent" after a year

In this case, 25(3) makes the offender liable to a fine.

Also, it's not a crime of dishonesty.

Unless bus laws are a bit weird, it's a "non-recordable" offence, which means it doesn't normally get onto the Police National Computer unless there's an error - so that "basic" "criminal record" (DBS) checks shouldn't reveal it even during the 12 months. And although, as the government advice page implies, you'd still have to tell employers, insurance companies etc during the year, employers may well not worry about a conviction that isn't for dishonest behaviour.

Whether or not you hire a solicitor, it would seem a good idea to write down the story in detail. A main overall question is - why should someone believe you didn't realise?

You can think of questions you might be asked, and what relevant facts you can mention that would help explain your version of events.

You could start with questions that people have suggested above.
 
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some bloke

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some bloke

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I've been reading some other threads and was wondering if i should try settle this out of court but have no idea how to do so and if it gets me out of a conviction.

Maybe the title of the thread could be changed to "Summoned to court for not paying bus fare", if that's the offence. The thing is that unfortunately you're definitely guilty of that. As with some motoring offences, or railway byelaw offences, the person is automatically liable to a conviction and fine just because of the act or omission.

A good reason for TfL to settle might be if you made a more ordinary mistake in the course of travelling. There could be some very innocent circumstance or relevant disability that resulted in you not "paying the fare". On the other hand, having a card that would give the wrong entitlement over an extended period, and so might in future cause a large loss in revenue, isn't a great justification for not "paying the fare".

Maybe it's possible to come up with a good justification - that's one thing lawyers try to do.

It's maybe lucky that someone noticed the date before you started using the card constantly, after the date when a valid card would have expired.

The good news is that - and here I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong - after a conviction for this kind of offence, for most jobs and circumstances, people aren't generally likely to care very much.
 
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