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How are UK train class identifiers/numeric designations, designated?

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61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...
Another weird one is the Sheffield tram-trains. Classified as class 399, when as they're currently (no pun intended) DC something like 599 would seem more appropriate.

Though they are built with passive provision to run on 25kv AC, should the heavy rail route ever be electrified.
 

swt_passenger

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I wonder whether the DEMU versions of TfW's Stadler FLIRTs will be 2xx or 6xx...?
6xx is defined as diesel or “other fuels”. That suggests it won’t be used for conventional DEMU, but might be used for a fuel cell, hydrogen, bionic duckweed or whatever...
 

hexagon789

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It does seem that specific numbers can be grabbed at random by those might see a marketing advantage in them. This is what makes a mockery of the system.

For example:
Desiro Citys numbered 700, 707 and 717, Bombardier Aventras numbered 701, 710, 720 and 730. Statler numbered 745, What a mess! I can't help thinking that the new Merseyrail bi-mode battery/EMUs class number is a publicity driven grab for what might be seen as a marketable number 777. I suppose that the owner of the trains for HS2 will grab class 888!

Ah so they can and actually do that, I thought it was rather coincidental.
 

cjmillsnun

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Not really. New trains being in 7xx and 8xx is a choice. Northern have new trains in the 3xx range, for example. Although it is a bit pointless having 5xx almost empty (and the new trains that should be in there aren't).
4XX and 5XX are DC only, where 7XX is AC or Dual. (from the RSSB document in the thread). Obviously DC only vehicles won't be assigned any more as any convertible vehicles are now tested on AC hence 707s being such even though they are DC at the moment. IIRC the 444s and 450s were never tested with a panto before introduction hence 4XX is suitable for them rather than 3XX (I know the 350s came later but that was after introduction with SWT)
 

edwin_m

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Another weird one is the Sheffield tram-trains. Classified as class 399, when as they're currently (no pun intended) DC something like 599 would seem more appropriate.

Though they are built with passive provision to run on 25kv AC, should the heavy rail route ever be electrified.
They have full provision for AC, technically they could run on it tomorrow (though there would no doubt be lots of paperwork involved).
 

59CosG95

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I think the reason why the 331s and 397s might be in the 3xx vice 7xx range might be due to CAF's preferential designations. 331 makes sense, as they also built the 332s and 333s; I also seem to remember that BR stated that 370-399 were designated for 'high speed' AC EMUs, so perhaps that's why 397 is where it is.

Perhaps CAF missed a memo about the new number ranges?:lol:
 

Grumbler

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Why does the class have to be numeric? Alpha designators. like the Southern used to have (e.g. SUB, BEL, BUF, COR) would be far more memorable.
 

hexagon789

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Why does the class have to be numeric? Alpha designators. like the Southern used to have (e.g. SUB, BEL, BUF, COR) would be far more memorable.

Can TOPs handle alphanumeric codes? I seem to recall it couldn't tolerate a zero in some places iirc.
 

Grumbler

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Can TOPs handle alphanumeric codes? I seem to recall it couldn't tolerate a zero in some places iirc.
I find it difficult to believe that any such restriction dating from when TOPS was introduced half a century or so ago would still apply today.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Why does the class have to be numeric? Alpha designators. like the Southern used to have (e.g. SUB, BEL, BUF, COR) would be far more memorable.

Not everyone would find the letter codes easier - some of us have brains that cope better with purely numerical codes.
 

hexagon789

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Not everyone would find the letter codes easier - some of us have brains that cope better with purely numerical codes.

I suppose at the very least the SR codes were also descriptive to an extent. Though whether that is of any additional help I don't know.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Why does the class have to be numeric? Alpha designators. like the Southern used to have (e.g. SUB, BEL, BUF, COR) would be far more memorable.

Being as the former Southern Region south of the mighty Thames is a foreign country to me (my local line in the West Midlands was once part of the Great Western Railway), I'm going to have a guess at the letter codes for the coaches.

SUB - Suburban
BEL - "Brighton Belle" trains
BUF - Buffet
COR - Composite Restaurant

Unsure if I have got them right.

Also, I have heard about VEP, VIG, CIG, but don't know what they are. I guess GLV is Goods and Luggage Van. Pigs are that I know are the Class 442s
 

edwin_m

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Also, I have heard about VEP, VIG, CIG, but don't know what they are. I guess GLV is Goods and Luggage Van. Pigs are that I know are the Class 442s
EP indicated the unit had electro-pneumatic brakes, and if I recall correctly CIG (or IG?) was some ancient telegraphic code for Brighton which was where those units were built for (but I think they had EP brakes too). BIG was a CIG with a buffet, BEP was a CEP with a buffet. There were also various codes denoting the presence or absence of toilets.
 

Grumbler

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Being as the former Southern Region south of the mighty Thames is a foreign country to me (my local line in the West Midlands was once part of the Great Western Railway), I'm going to have a guess at the letter codes for the coaches.

SUB - Suburban
BEL - "Brighton Belle" trains
BUF - Buffet
COR - Composite Restaurant

Unsure if I have got them right.

Also, I have heard about VEP, VIG, CIG, but don't know what they are. I guess GLV is Goods and Luggage Van. Pigs are that I know are the Class 442s
COR was corridor i.e. same as a BUF but with an ordinary vehicle without a buffet. Otherwise spot on!
There was also a leading numeric indicating the number of vehicles in the unit - so 5-BEL, 4-BUF etc.
 

Grumbler

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EP indicated the unit had electro-pneumatic brakes, and if I recall correctly CIG (or IG?) was some ancient telegraphic code for Brighton which was where those units were built for (but I think they had EP brakes too). BIG was a CIG with a buffet, BEP was a CEP with a buffet. There were also various codes denoting the presence or absence of toilets.
Yes, the Southern seems to have been obsessed by lavatories. So the 2-BIL (Bi-lavatory) had a loo in each coach whereas the 2-HAL (half lavatory) had a loo in one vehicle only (not a loo partly outside thankfully). You can find quite a bit on Wkipedia.
 

hexagon789

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EP indicated the unit had electro-pneumatic brakes, and if I recall correctly CIG (or IG?) was some ancient telegraphic code for Brighton which was where those units were built for (but I think they had EP brakes too). BIG was a CIG with a buffet, BEP was a CEP with a buffet. There were also various codes denoting the presence or absence of toilets.

CIG - Corridor Intermediate Guard (originally Corridor IG - IG being the code for Brighton)
BEP - Buffet Electro-Pneumatic brakes

Being as the former Southern Region south of the mighty Thames is a foreign country to me (my local line in the West Midlands was once part of the Great Western Railway), I'm going to have a guess at the letter codes for the coaches.

SUB - Suburban
BEL - "Brighton Belle" trains
BUF - Buffet
COR - Composite Restaurant

Unsure if I have got them right.

Also, I have heard about VEP, VIG, CIG, but don't know what they are. I guess GLV is Goods and Luggage Van. Pigs are that I know are the Class 442s

COR - simply CORridor iirc
BEL - brighton BELle
VEP - Vestibuled Electro-Pneumatic brakes
VIG - Vestibuled Intermediate Guard
CIG - Corridor Intermediate Guard
GLV - Guard's Luggage Van

The 442s were coded 5WES unofficially for 5-car Wessex Electric Stock.
 
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