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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

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Rikki Lamb

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Potentially could be great trains, it is just sad they have seats as hard as concrete and a cheap fabric covering.

They are however quick and quiet, just very uncomfy
 
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Grumpy

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Potentially could be great trains, it is just sad they have seats as hard as concrete and a cheap fabric covering.
I didn't think the seats were too bad. I stepped from an Azuma onto a 331 and the 331 seats were noticeably more comfortable (unless of course sitting on the Azuma had numbed my sensors).
 

61653 HTAFC

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Rode 331106 from Wakefield Westgate to South Elmsall and back (on diagram 2 in the appropriate thread, which started the day as 321902). Overall these are excellent units, (the rough seat covers notwithstanding as they'll be replaced in due course AIUI) which ride far smoother than the 321/322s with far less vibration and lateral sway on the longish and fastish stretch between Fitzwilliam and Sandal & Agbrigg. Announcements are clear and seem a bit loud, but they have to be loud enough for everyone of course. I predict the seats immediately next to the cabs will be popular as they align well with the windows and have only a single seat on one side. You can actually feel yourself being pushed back in your seat as the unit takes power from a start, and even as the power notches up (if that's a term).

The doors took a while to be released on arrival at South Elmsall, but they were released almost immediately on the return so I assume the delay was due to crowding- though in the latter case the doors were opened from that point so other doors were a few seconds later. What I assume was the "spaceship" noise described by others was intermittent and I think was to do with the air-con, which was working well on a pretty hot day. It is noticeable in part because the units are so quiet though- it was more apparent on the return when i was in a middle car.
 

theblackwatch

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Did an Outwood to Leeds return this tea time to ride on both units. From a passenger perspective, they will be seen as a big improvement on the 321/322 units. Having 2+2 rather than 3+2 seats, the seating capacity is slightly lower than the units they are replacing, although I suspect more people will actually use a seat - there are too many 'XL' size people for 3+2 to be used fully. Legroom is much better too (was never normally a problem for me before, but I know it was for some!).

On the two sets I travelled on, the PIS was displaying adverts for the new trains on one set, while the second it was working properly, displaying all the stops. Noted the wording on the priority seats which said 'for people who are disabled, pregnant or less able to stand' - the latter is important as there are a multitude of reasons why people may not be able to for a significant period. It does need people to be good enough to give up the seat if required though. On my second journey, the guard did a manual announcement on departure from Leeds, explaining this was one of the new trains on its first day in service - a good PR move in my view.

The seat backs were fine in my view, but it needs some softer padding and better cloth below, particularly in warm weather when you're in shorts! Not too bad for a short journey though.

Acceleration seemed good leaving Leeds towards Ardsley, but unit caught up a Leeds-Sheffield service which had departed 5 mins late. New stock isn't going to improve timekeeping if there are other trains in the way...
 

ainsworth74

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A small group of us did the 1722 (and it seems so did others that we weren't aware of!) and I have to say that I was very impressed. Acceleration was tremendous (it honestly took a bit of effort to stay upright pulling away from some stations) and it hit 100mph several times between stations.

Interior layout was good though yes window alignment isn't perfect. Some seats at tables are next to a window pillar but at least the whole table isn't against the pillar. Not great but not a massive issue and it only effects seats between the doors, the ends of the carriages are perfectly aligned. Leg room was also good in all seats. Four of us at a table and we didn't have any knees knocking and I tried an non-priority airline seat and it was fine legroom wise.

Seats themselves were fine not particularly uncomfortable indeed I'd say they were no different comfort wise to the Mk4 seats I had on the way back from Doncaster. Which is impressive as most other implementation of iron board seats are like rocks.

Aircon worked very well to keep it at a comfortable temperature and on leaving Leeds it will have been under a great deal of stress as it was a completely full and standing train on a hot day. Yet the train never got too hot.

The PIS screens I thought were great. There plenty of them and they included stopping pattern, connection information, realtime running, told you which side the doors would open on and rotated through the screens at a sensible speed.

Only niggle was the time taken to unlock doors (that seems to be a wider issue with the ASDO?) but I'm sure it'll be resolved before too long. The only other thing was I think it could perhaps have done with some larger luggage racks for suitcases (but the overhead racks were very large indeed).

Overall I would say that these are excellent units. Seriously impressive.
 

Neen Sollars

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Saw 331 end car on low loader heading north up M5 this afternoon. Also saw one the other week being transported north. Guess they arrive at Southampton? There look to be regular deliveries to the TOC
 

59CosG95

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Saw 331 end car on low loader heading north up M5 this afternoon. Also saw one the other week being transported north. Guess they arrive at Southampton? There look to be regular deliveries to the TOC
Up the M5? They'll be coming from Llanwern via the M4! Don't think CAF at Llanwern is connected to the rail network yet, although I could be wrong.
 

superkev

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331 108 has just passed Huddersfield behind 37 611 on it's way to Neville Hill making seven units I believe east side.
108 was the unit that had to abort its trip over last Wednesday at Edge Hill so must be sorted now.
K
 

Mojo

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I’ve noticed in some of the photos from the new trains that there seems to be a new, green button, marked SOS near the doors which the signage implies allows you to talk to a member of train crew. Below this is a red button that says Alarm and the signage implies that it will stop the train.

I’ve never seen the distinction between a device solely for communication (excluding what you get certain modern trains in the toilets but even there I’m sure the button is still red). Is this part of a new standard on trains whereby the communication button isn’t linked to the train brakes (AIUI on modern/upgraded trains you pull the red alarm and the driver has to depress a button in the cab within a certain time to stop the brakes automatically applying, he can then speak to you via a handset in the cab and a speaker/mic by the alarm), and also if the red button is pressed will the brakes automatically apply like an old style alarm or is there still the override option for the driver?
 

Bantamzen

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Just had a brief play on 331 110 from Wakefield up towards Leeds. I have to say that I am very impressed overall, they look very nice inside although the PIS wasn't functional on this run, and the overall ambiance is more of a regional service than the commuter feel of the 321/322s they will displace.

But what is noticeable is the acceleration, given even half a chance they are really nimble on their feet, something that will be very welcome on the diagrams they will be working at least in West Yorkshire. And whilst the 2x2 configuration will mean less seating capacity compared to the 333s, the door wells are wide and the offset table seating through the middle of the carriages will aid standees greatly. Plus on routes with large numbers of cases, the large doorwells with top-up seats should easily double up as storage space when loadings are not too heavy.

Overall they are a massive, massive step up for Northern punters, and a very welcome one too.
 

driver_m

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Seems a good start then. Hope it works out well for everyone on Northern. Any idea when the 3 car variants are getting launched? Presumably they’re going to be in the North West,
 

Bletchleyite

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I’ve noticed in some of the photos from the new trains that there seems to be a new, green button, marked SOS near the doors which the signage implies allows you to talk to a member of train crew. Below this is a red button that says Alarm and the signage implies that it will stop the train.

I’ve never seen the distinction between a device solely for communication (excluding what you get certain modern trains in the toilets but even there I’m sure the button is still red). Is this part of a new standard on trains whereby the communication button isn’t linked to the train brakes (AIUI on modern/upgraded trains you pull the red alarm and the driver has to depress a button in the cab within a certain time to stop the brakes automatically applying, he can then speak to you via a handset in the cab and a speaker/mic by the alarm), and also if the red button is pressed will the brakes automatically apply like an old style alarm or is there still the override option for the driver?

That's quite interesting, it seems to mirror DB's approach where you have a green "Notruf" (emergency call, does not stop the train) and a red "Notbremse" (emergency brake, does stop the train unless overridden). It's a concept I quite like, as it stops people being put off using the red handle to report something not affecting the safety of the train but still needing reporting, e.g. someone apparently seriously ill (who will probably be best served by *not* stopping the train unless in a platform).

You also have the same thing on platform help points, though I think the emergency one calls 999?
 

swt_passenger

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I’ve noticed in some of the photos from the new trains that there seems to be a new, green button, marked SOS near the doors which the signage implies allows you to talk to a member of train crew. Below this is a red button that says Alarm and the signage implies that it will stop the train.

I’ve never seen the distinction between a device solely for communication (excluding what you get certain modern trains in the toilets but even there I’m sure the button is still red). Is this part of a new standard on trains whereby the communication button isn’t linked to the train brakes (AIUI on modern/upgraded trains you pull the red alarm and the driver has to depress a button in the cab within a certain time to stop the brakes automatically applying, he can then speak to you via a handset in the cab and a speaker/mic by the alarm), and also if the red button is pressed will the brakes automatically apply like an old style alarm or is there still the override option for the driver?
I thought most post privatisation stock had separated communication from emergency braking, with two separate devices? I think the colour coding on Desiro Uk is the other way around though, with red for comms to driver and green for the alarm and door open?

I wonder if there’ll be a future issue of standardisation of what is coloured red or green?
 

Mojo

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I thought most post privatisation stock had separated communication from emergency braking, with two separate devices? I think the colour coding on Desiro Uk is the other way around though, with red for comms to driver and green for the alarm and door open?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before, except on some trains in the toilets and (possibly) in the Wheelchair areas. Do you have any examples?

I don’t ever remember seeing one in green either, this stock still has the emergency door opening handle in green as is usual for modern stock.
 

swt_passenger

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before, except on some trains in the toilets and (possibly) in the Wheelchair areas. Do you have any examples?

I don’t ever remember seeing one in green either, this stock still has the emergency door opening handle in green as is usual for modern stock.
Ah I’ve missed that bit, so what you seem to be saying is that there are three things, two comms channels ie one for SOS, and one for ALARM , and a separate door emergency operating lever?
 

Bletchleyite

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Ah I’ve missed that bit, so what you seem to be saying is that there are three things, two comms channels ie one for SOS, and one for ALARM , and a separate door emergency operating lever?

Yes.

On Desiros you have:
- Red - passcom
- Green - door release

Both apply the brakes if not overridden, as I understand it. The door release is only intended to be used if an evacuation is needed.
 

Mojo

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Ah I’ve missed that bit, so what you seem to be saying is that there are three things, two comms channels ie one for SOS, and one for ALARM , and a separate door emergency operating lever?
Yes, there seems to be three things by the door. The signage for the red alarm just implies that it will stop the train, whereas on other modern stock the red alarm signage usually implies that operating it will let you communicate with the driver. Signage for the green SOS button on this new stock implies that it is just for communication, in an emergency only, and then on the other side is the usual green emergency exit handle.
 

childwallblues

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331 108 has just passed Huddersfield behind 37 611 on it's way to Neville Hill making seven units I believe east side.
108 was the unit that had to abort its trip over last Wednesday at Edge Hill so must be sorted now.
K
47813 passed Liverpool South Parkway at 1830 last night on the down slow with two Arlington barrier coaches. Five minutes later it reversed through Platform One on to Allerton Depot to pick up 331108.
 

childwallblues

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331 108 has just passed Huddersfield behind 37 611 on it's way to Neville Hill making seven units I believe east side.
108 was the unit that had to abort its trip over last Wednesday at Edge Hill so must be sorted now.
K
Did you get the barrier vehicle numbers please?
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, there seems to be three things by the door. The signage for the red alarm just implies that it will stop the train, whereas on other modern stock the red alarm signage usually implies that operating it will let you communicate with the driver. Signage for the green SOS button on this new stock implies that it is just for communication, in an emergency only, and then on the other side is the usual green emergency exit handle.

Where can I see a picture of this panel, to save me going through the whole of 3 threads looking for one? Ta.
 

Mojo

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Where can I see a picture of this panel, to save me going through the whole of 3 threads looking for one? Ta.
This photo is from Lee “Render”
on Twitter.
 

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Neen Sollars

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Up the M5? They'll be coming from Llanwern via the M4! Don't think CAF at Llanwern is connected to the rail network yet, although I could be wrong.
Ah! Built in Wales, so M4, M5, M6. I thought they might have been built in Spain and landed at Southampton or Bristol. It is taking time but lots of new rolling stock starting to be introduced throughout GB.
 

Dampfmann

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331 108 was at Doncaster on the goods lines behind platform 8 at 0800hrs this morning. One of the cab door windows covered by a piece of wood.
Also present in the West Yard - behind the 331 on the photo - 47813 37611 and two green Arlington barrier coaches. These were 68501 next to 37611 and 68504 next to 47813. The 331 at the left rear of 108 on the photo was 331 102. 331 106 was in service working Leeds trains.
upload_2019-7-2_22-20-34.jpeg
 

TEW

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Yes.

On Desiros you have:
- Red - passcom
- Green - door release

Both apply the brakes if not overridden, as I understand it. The door release is only intended to be used if an evacuation is needed.
Desiros also have Call for Aids located in the wheelchair spaces and toilets which allow communication with the driver but do not apply the brakes. Nothing near the doors which does not apply the brakes though.
 

driver_m

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Ah! Built in Wales, so M4, M5, M6. I thought they might have been built in Spain and landed at Southampton or Bristol. It is taking time but lots of new rolling stock starting to be introduced throughout GB.


Some are Welsh, some are Spanish, the only obvious way of knowing without seeing them come out of the factory is the Spanish ones have a large ‘CAF ZARAGOZA’ stuck on one of the windows. The Welsh ones don’t have anything other than the descriptions on the carriage.
 

AndyB56

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Sat on a delayed 331 17:57 LDS-DON (good to see time keeping isn't improving), seats are worst than the Azuma, in particular the back, though the seat cushion is ok. Door issues at Wakefield too! Think I'll be sticking to the 18:15 LDS-LKX Azuma service. Weirdly, I'm also preferring the automated announcement on the Azuma, rather than the thick Yorkshire accent!
 
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