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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

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InOban

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Hasn't every previous delivery been canceat least once? But there's always a first time!
 

hexagon789

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It's Scotrail. Sensible precaution.

I don't automatically expect the worst because it's ScotRail, it's not going to plan certainly but it's not as if there haven't been previous rolling stock deliveries that haven't gone to plan, that have run into technical issues or run over schedule.

It happens, so I'm just waiting to see how it goes really. Not much else we can do.
 

Highland37

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I don't remember any introduction of very well understood vehicles being so slow. There are five sets delivered, four in service but not at the level they need to be and at the current rate, it will take until 2022 before they all appear. By that time, they will so ancient that they may well be the oldest stock on the main line.

I see little alternative however to keeping plodding on with the same old.
 

Paul Kerr

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Trust me, a 5+2 HST will most definetly NOT fit into Patforms 3 or 4 at Inverness - the leading power car would be hanging off the end of the platform, ahead of the signal. A 4+2 is fine though - the most you can fit into Platforms 3 & 4 is either 2x 170s or 3x 158s (eg, 6x 23m coach lengths).

Yes, the sidings at Inverness will take 5+2 HSTs (nos 6, 7 & 8 roads, beside the CMD were recently lengthened to take HSTs), also I've seen 2 4+2 HST sets stabled together in the Motorail siding (beside Platform 1) .

It's quite time consiming to shunt back & fore from the CMD though, but certainly possible

Thanks for confirming this on the platform lengths. What could be done as a workaround on this? I remember back in the day when HSTs from the ECML used to run to Queen St that the trains were too long for the platforms and the front power car was ahead of the signal when leaving the station. Presumably the signal was modified to allow it to be read from the front power car? Could something similar be done at Platforms 3 and 4 at Inverness to allow 5 car trains to call at those platforms, or is that not allowed these days?
 

Railperf

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How many classic / refurb sets have been delivered and how many of these are in public service now?
 

Highlandspring

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How many classic / refurb sets have been delivered and how many of these are in public service now?
Five refurbs delivered (HA22/HA23/HA24/HA25/HA26) and all but HA22 in service. Fifteen classics with one of them (HA13) dedicated to driver training.
 

hexagon789

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That would be great if they are!!

Well ScotRail have it planned, so it seems reasonable to assume that they plan to have that slate of diagrams as HSTs from the 19th August. I'm still hopeful with these, I know that things are still going awry with diagramming but it can only get better.
 

Ben.A.98

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Thanks for confirming this on the platform lengths. What could be done as a workaround on this? I remember back in the day when HSTs from the ECML used to run to Queen St that the trains were too long for the platforms and the front power car was ahead of the signal when leaving the station. Presumably the signal was modified to allow it to be read from the front power car? Could something similar be done at Platforms 3 and 4 at Inverness to allow 5 car trains to call at those platforms, or is that not allowed these days?

They already are fitted, dig back many a page and you will find where I have previously mentioned them and posted a photo. Post #3540 on page 118

Fitted to the back of the signal is the alphanumeric route indicator which shows the route U, D, E, and what we call a standout which is 4 stencils stacked on top of each other which co-act with the signals on the front, they read OFF, MAIN, SUB, I can't remember the 4th, it might be RA. These are fitted for starting beyond the signal.
 
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Ben.A.98

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Whether Scotrail permit their use I'm not sure, I'll stop maintaining them every 3 months if not :D.
 

jingsmonty

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They already are fitted, dig back many a page and you will find where I have previously mentioned them and posted a photo. Post #3540 on page 118

Fitted to the back of the signal is the alphanumeric route indicator which shows the route U, D, E, and what we call a standout which is 4 stencils stacked on top of each other which co-act with the signals on the front, they read OFF, MAIN, SUB, I can't remember the 4th, it might be RA. These are fitted for starting beyond the signal.

I've seen them, but its not something that Inverness Drivers are briefed on, or work with. I've only started ahead of the signal (Platform 4, I think - to move an over length train), I just contacted the signaller & got permission to start ahead & obey the gantry signal (next one along, level with the platform signals for Platforms 1 &2). It's not something I could see being a regular thing, but who knows....
 

mic505

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Any progress on the coaches at Kilmarnock. I think up to six coaches have been there since April.
 

jingsmonty

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Aye cause the 0707 ran as a 170 from queen Street. Invernes has too many HSTS currently only needs 1 overnight to form the 845 to queen Street. Obviously the refurb is their for staff training but there was 4 classic sets in inverness when I arrived home yesterday that's crazy 1 has now gone south on 1b54 1554 inv to Edinburgh and another looks like it was heading south out of tmd at 1630 no idea what was happening with that

I took that HST set up from Perth Yesterday, was pleasantly suprised to actually HAVE an HST on the HML....
 

jingsmonty

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It's long be said that 170s are 'gutless' and the figures certainly suggest that is the case.

There have been a number of posts relating to 170s' sluggishness and in teens of acceleration what are they really suited to? Definitely on long-distance there is no contest, an HST wins hands-down.

Definetly!Even given the reduced speeds (unable to use the 'SP' differentials on the HML) - they really do 'flatten out' the HML gradients!
 

jingsmonty

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Any progress on the coaches at Kilmarnock. I think up to six coaches have been there since April.

Are these trailers actually for refurbishment? I thought they may be just 'Classic' coaches having a quick tart-up. Not sure though
 

Clansman

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Won't Killie be used for retention tank fitting if anything, given this is the main priority at this moment in time rather than speeding up the refurb delivery?
 

jingsmonty

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It's long be said that 170s are 'gutless' and the figures certainly suggest that is the case.

There have been a number of posts relating to 170s' sluggishness and in teens of acceleration what are they really suited to? Definitely on long-distance there is no contest, an HST wins hands-down.

I think Scotrail plan to use the remaining 170's (20-21 sets, I think?) on FIfe Circles/Borders Railway services? Of course, that's once all the long distance services are worked by a fully refurbished fleet of HSTs. I await that happy day....
 

jingsmonty

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Won't Killie be used for retention tank fitting if anything, given this is the main priority at this moment in time rather than speeding up the refurb delivery?

Pass. I know the 'Classic' coaches are having GPS sensors fitted to their toilets (think the Scotrail Class 156s have this too?), whether this is a 'Kilmarnock' job or a depot job, I'm not sure.
 

mic505

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No, it's the full refurbishment (with power-operated doors and control emission tanks) via a 3rd production line created there, because the project is so badly delayed. However the 'Classic' sets are allowed in traffic from January 2020 via a semi-PRM compliance or temporary derogation. The specification for this is: PIS system, accessible toilets and control emission tanks. All the 'Classic' sets need are the tanks fitted, which I'm assuming Scotrail are looking for a contractor to carry out the works ASAP.
 
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