• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Maxfly

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2010
Messages
269
Location
Scotland
I've seen them, but its not something that Inverness Drivers are briefed on, or work with. I've only started ahead of the signal (Platform 4, I think - to move an over length train), I just contacted the signaller & got permission to start ahead & obey the gantry signal (next one along, level with the platform signals for Platforms 1 &2). It's not something I could see being a regular thing, but who knows....
Strange they are not part of the briefing for ScotRail drivers, part of the standard signalling system. Iirc the ‘T’ buttons on the panel are for over length trains too but obviously that’s only for the signallers.
Ben is correct that the fourth is the RA.
They are used fairly rarely, usually when the sleepers ecs ran from Aberdeen with extra coaches during east coast closures are the most recent instances I can think of.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Maxfly

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2010
Messages
269
Location
Scotland
Pass. I know the 'Classic' coaches are having GPS sensors fitted to their toilets (think the Scotrail Class 156s have this too?), whether this is a 'Kilmarnock' job or a depot job, I'm not sure.

The 156’s did have this, unfortunately this usually meant once they set off on the WHL the toilets usually dumped square onto the points...lovely. All now have retention tanks thankfully
 

Highlandspring

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2017
Messages
2,777
Any progress on the coaches at Kilmarnock. I think up to six coaches have been there since April.
Are these trailers actually for refurbishment? I thought they may be just 'Classic' coaches having a quick tart-up. Not sure though
Won't Killie be used for retention tank fitting if anything, given this is the main priority at this moment in time rather than speeding up the refurb delivery?
No, it's the full refurbishment (with power-operated doors and control emission tanks) via a 3rd production line created there,
Bear in mind there are two contractors more or less next door to each other in Kilmarnock, both of whom are doing work on ScotRail Mk3 trailer vehicles...

Brodie Engineering (based in the former Bonnyton On Track Machine depot) have done some basic running repairs to, amongst other things, reduce water ingress on the ‘classic’ slam door vehicles.

Wabtec Rail Scotland (formerly Andrew Barclay Sons & Co/Hunslet-Barclay/Brush-Barclay) are carrying out refurbishment work but I was led to believe this won’t include fitting the sliding doors and the trailers will be moved by road part-way through the work to be finished in Doncaster.

Hope that clears things up.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,778
Location
Glasgow
Pretty much, yes

Thank you.

I think Scotrail plan to use the remaining 170's (20-21 sets, I think?) on FIfe Circles/Borders Railway services? Of course, that's once all the long distance services are worked by a fully refurbished fleet of HSTs. I await that happy day....

I think they're alright for those routes, and I think most of us long for that happy day!
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
No, it's the full refurbishment (with power-operated doors and control emission tanks) via a 3rd production line created there, because the project is so badly delayed. However the 'Classic' sets are allowed in traffic from January 2020 via a semi-PRM compliance or temporary derogation. The specification for this is: PIS system, accessible toilets and control emission tanks. All the 'Classic' sets need are the tanks fitted, which I'm assuming Scotrail are looking for a contractor to carry out the works ASAP.

Great info, cheers for that. I hope the maximum amount of Inter7City sets are completed by this date, as having to carry out 2 lots of work on the Classic sets isn't a very effcient way of doing things - not much option though, non CET toilets are unacceptable in this day & age.

I can see a scenario where Classic trailers that have had the CET tanks & PIS system fitted (they have an accessible toilet anyway) take longer to do the door fitting (when they eventually get done) as the wiring, etc, will be different, if the work was done by a different contractor.
 

RLBH

Member
Joined
17 May 2018
Messages
962
Seems to be in the loop at Dalmeny just now.
Made it to Perth. Looking at RTT, possibly heading to Inverness this afternoon - either the 1218 training train path or a 1514 100mph 'freight' path to Inverness TMD.

No last-minute cancellations on this one; dare we hope that Wabtec are getting the hang of the HST refurb?
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Bear in mind there are two contractors more or less next door to each other in Kilmarnock, both of whom are doing work on ScotRail Mk3 trailer vehicles...

Brodie Engineering (based in the former Bonnyton On Track Machine depot) have done some basic running repairs to, amongst other things, reduce water ingress on the ‘classic’ slam door vehicles.

Wabtec Rail Scotland (formerly Andrew Barclay Sons & Co/Hunslet-Barclay/Brush-Barclay) are carrying out refurbishment work but I was led to believe this won’t include fitting the sliding doors and the trailers will be moved by road part-way through the work to be finished in Doncaster.

Hope that clears things up.

That's all good info, thanks for that. Doesn't seem the most efficient way of doing things, but if it gets the refurbishment speeded up, I'm not complaining. Would seem more logical to do sets simultaneously at both Wabtec sites
 

Chris125

Established Member
Joined
12 Nov 2009
Messages
3,076
Would seem more logical to do sets simultaneously at both Wabtec sites

Makes sense to me, god knows how long it would take to educate a whole new workforce to do the whole thing from scratch.

Better to give Kilmarnock what should be relatively straightforward prep work - corrosion repairs etc - to free up the skills and experience built up at Doncaster for finishing them to the required standard.
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Makes sense to me, god knows how long it would take to educate a whole new workforce to do the whole thing from scratch.

Better to give Kilmarnock what should be relatively straightforward prep work - corrosion repairs etc - to free up the skills and experience built up at Doncaster for finishing them to the required standard.
I get your point, I just thought that all the wiring/electrical work would be easier being completed at the same time as the bodywork stuff. The toilets, for one thing, are quite involved. Perhaps the electrical stuff will be done at Doncaster with the doors. I'm sure it'll work out - something needs to be done to speed things up! Certainly needs to be carefully planned, to avoid any mishaps
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Made it to Perth. Looking at RTT, possibly heading to Inverness this afternoon - either the 1218 training train path or a 1514 100mph 'freight' path to Inverness TMD.

No last-minute cancellations on this one; dare we hope that Wabtec are getting the hang of the HST refurb?

This is probably a dumb question, but I take it we're talking about the 2 power cars (43124 & 43037) newly released from Brush here? Thought they may be swapping out with a couple of unrefurbished power cars.
 

RLBH

Member
Joined
17 May 2018
Messages
962
This is probably a dumb question, but I take it we're talking about the 2 power cars (43124 & 43037) newly released from Brush here? Thought they may be swapping out with a couple of unrefurbished power cars.
According to Scotrail social media, another full refurb set - presumably HA21.
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
According to Scotrail social media, another full refurb set - presumably HA21.

That's great to hear! I'm suprised it's heading for Inverness, though - unless HA22 is moving & going into passenger service? One of the Hospitality guys was telling me the other day that they are supposed to be doing their Buffet training on the refurbished set soon, perhaps HA21 will be used for that?

It would seem the rumour about the buffets being removed for bike space was just that - a rumour.
 

RLBH

Member
Joined
17 May 2018
Messages
962
That's great to hear! I'm suprised it's heading for Inverness, though - unless HA22 is moving & going into passenger service? One of the Hospitality guys was telling me the other day that they are supposed to be doing their Buffet training on the refurbished set soon, perhaps HA21 will be used for that?
Don't know if that's the intention, but there was an extra path from Perth to Inverness yesterday afternoon after it arrived.
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Don't know if that's the intention, but there was an extra path from Perth to Inverness yesterday afternoon after it arrived.
HA21 is coming to Inverness to continue staff training (hospitality included) & HA22 is heading for Haymarket. Certainly not enough room to have them both lying about!
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Excellent, I was hoping that was the case. Though the cycles are still an issue.

One of the Hospitality staff was saying their buffet training is starting soon. So glad the buffet is staying, but think the plan is still to have 1 member of staff working a buffet & a trolley ....!
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Made it to Perth. Looking at RTT, possibly heading to Inverness this afternoon - either the 1218 training train path or a 1514 100mph 'freight' path to Inverness TMD.

No last-minute cancellations on this one; dare we hope that Wabtec are getting the hang of the HST refurb?

Rest day today, so not sure if HA21 has made it North yet - or if HA22 has headed South as well
 

adrock1976

Established Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
4,450
Location
What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld

Alanko

Member
Joined
2 May 2019
Messages
641
Location
Somewhere between Waverley and Queen Street.
I've been on 385s next to the new HSTs in both Waverley and Queen Street recently. The refurbished coaches get dirty pretty quickly. Was light blue the most sensible colour? Most tellingly the vinyls seem to pick up dirt more quickly than the paintwork itself, so a dirty tan band appears where the decal of the overlaid landscapes and cityscapes is applied on each coach. One power car had also ingested a pigeon into the grill covering the horn.

Very trivial stuff, I know.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,270
43136/179 have gone south to Brush today as the next for bodywork overhaul. Just 43030/126/132/135/142/144 still to go in.
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Sadly the scenario described is what happens on many services.

St Pancras - Sheffield on East Midlands can be excellent but has all the problems of covering trolley, first class service and any buffet.
XC Newcastle - Sheffield, trolley may not come round until after Doncaster - might as well wait to get home. 1st class may fare slightly better.
XC Sheffield - Newcastle, trolley comes as soon as I sit down on the train after breakfast. Doesn't call again until 2 hours later crossing the Tyne.
East Midlands Sheffield - Norwich trolley leaves at Peterborough just when ready for a drink on a long journey. Was good on Sheffield - Manchester leg last time I used that service having been unable to get aboard the preceding TPE - the trolley was struggling to get on.
TPE Sheffield-Manchester either direction, trolley usually seems to be marooned in 1st class unable to move even in there (assuming there was one) and leaves/joins at Doncaster.

My best memory of train catering was from Fort William having a 3 course meal across Rannoch Moor in 1958, my father and I possibly the only diners that day. I had sole as my main course.

If the train is quiet trolley or buffet sells little. If the train is rammed it's likely to be a similar economic result. It's only when the train is always modestly loaded for the greater part of the journey, and catering is guaranteed to be there, will passengers rely on it and consistently buy.

That said catering staff vary in their approaches. On my most recent encounter the operator sauntered down the train looking totally bored and flatly reciting a list of things he had without looking at anyone or slowing his sedate progress at any point. Didn't expect to sell anything, and didn't.

My first HST experience was about 1976/7 from Paddington. The young lady there was brilliant. Smiling all the way, stopped at every seat, eye contact, "would you prefer tea or coffee sir?" Train 75% full, everyone bought. Expected to sell, and did.

Very difficult to manage staff in such variable conditions and losses almost inevitable on most trains.

Sounds about right. Although to be fair, I've found the Scotrail Hospitality staff to be excellent - I'm sure they'll make the best of whatever method they end up having to work with on the HSTs.
 

jingsmonty

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2014
Messages
1,022
Location
Inverness
Just saw a refurbished set leaving Inverness about 10 mins ago, presume that's HA22 heading to Haymarket? With HA21 heading North to replace it for training (it's currently in Perth, I think) soon?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top