Sorry if I’m being stupid, but can you confirm that no more 442 diagrams will be added until the 5Q/9X issues are resolved?
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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently
- Thread starter richa2002
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Sorry if I’m being stupid, but can you confirm that no more 442 diagrams will be added until the 5Q/9X issues are resolved?
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Thumper1127
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when you say 6 sets, do you mean 6 units or 6 sets of 10 Car?
HamworthyGoods
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Yes as running them as class 9s in passenger traffic is only permitted with 2 drivers, not sustainable for all day use.
HamworthyGoods
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6 units (or 3 ten cars)
Presumably the 442s are currently unable to run on the New Line due to being unable to use the Slow lines between Waterloo and Woking? (some 442 Sunday services are timetabled on the New Line rather than via Woking I believe?)
Kieran1990
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New Line runs Surbiton- Effingham-Guildford.
Thought they were cleared for the New Line?
Oh, interesting, thanks! It may just be me being stupid, but I cannot understand why these trains haven’t got clearance on all their usual routes as of yet, particularly since 10 years ago they used to run into Waterloo anyway and there has been no mechanical change to the units?
They’re cleared for lots of parts of the routes, but there’s also many places where they’re not cleared, rather than expect signallers and drivers to know every issue it’s easy to just ban them on the slows and then allow slow line running during degraded running.
HamworthyGoods
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The units have been raised 9mm since they last operated on the SWML that changes their gauging profile slightly.
Thumper1127
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Does anyone have an update on how the route clearance is going and when more diagrams may start?
According to the SWR twitter team, one additional 10 car 442 is due to be introduced “soon”. Though they could not apparently provide any more info than this...
9 out of 18 442s are now accepted for service
Interesting - do you think it’s track restrictions or a lack of trained drivers which is stopping the interoduction?
It was mentioned above that SWR/NR are reluctant to introduce additional diagrams until the clearance 9B/5Q issues are sorted. As soon as 2mm is shaved off Weybridge station etc then they should be good to go.
Goldfish62
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So their statement that the only thing stopping them introducing the planned four pairs of units from the start of the Summer timetable was the doors interlock issue wasn't quite the whole story....
Thanks for the update - when you say 2mm is shaved off Weybridge station, what do you mean?
swt_passenger
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I think he’s only using it as an example of what the type of work might be, “etc” is important here. “2mm shaved off” presumably meaning platform edges.
they probably just re-assessed the performance risks of running units with such great restrictions after the first couple of wrong routes and vetoed it for the time being
RichSwitch
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Stupid question: On the 9mm... that’s less than 1cm. Are the units being lowered by this amount again? I’m guessing the clearances in Buriton were pretty tight before the raise.
theironroad
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I think buriton has always been an issue (not sure if it has further ones with reintroduction), 442s were always restricted to 40mph both ways through the tunnel whereas slam door was ok for 70.
HamworthyGoods
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Burriton tunnel - C1 stock 70, C3 stock 40. When 444/450s were introduced as the cabs were identical to save potential confusion the speed was dropped for all stock.
I’m led to believe the idea of a 9 car also contributed to this, driver could be driving from a 450 with a 444 on the back and forget. Safer all round to go for 40 with not much of a time penalty.
In regards to my earlier post, there are several places where the units only just cause issues, and I was paraphrasing, but Weybridge platform 3 is out by 2mm so I wasn’t telling porkies
Probably realised that trying to run a significant number of services with 2 drivers each during the Summer when driver resources are usually tight was not a great idea either.
Thumper1127
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Thanks for that. I suggest it will be the diagram I mentioned in post 3631 as this means the unit starts and ends at Bournemouth each day, with no overnight stabling at Fratton. It would also mean that two of the diagrams currently formed 8 450 instead of 10 44X could be strengthened.
It’s worth pointing out that their current diagram was never booked a 442 anyway.
The evening train is booked 10-442 having stabled in Clapham Yard all day but it should come in off 1P16, the 0615 Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo.
theironroad
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theironroad
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I’m led to believe the idea of a 9 car also contributed to this, driver could be driving from a 450 with a 444 on the back and forget. Safer all round to go for 40 with not much of a time penalty.
In regards to my earlier post, there are several places where the units only just cause issues, and I was paraphrasing, but Weybridge platform 3 is out by 2mm so I wasn’t telling porkies
You're led to believe correctly lol, it actually happened while it was still a differential speed.
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