South Wales 'Metro' updates

krus_aragon · 5 Jun 2019

Tom Quinne said:
How are those who provide public transport meant to get to their places of work to start the service at stupid o’clock before public transport actually starts ?

While I accept that those living in the local area will have different opinions to those from further away, I think this last point may have drifted towards hyperbole. If the public transport workers are on their way to work at stupid o'clock, they won't find much road traffic at that time, will they?

Their return journey may land them in rush hour traffic, but I'm not sure if that's the point you were trying to make.

RailUK Forums

Severn40 · 5 Jun 2019

In the context of the M4RR announcement, it is worth stressing how limited some of the public transport options are in Newport. Newport Bus is a shadow of its former self (arguably in managed self-decline) with most of its services starting around 7-30am and finishing on the dot at 6pm. Bus services themselves, with the exception of one/two services, do not serve the railway station and usually require a 5 to 10 minute walk to connect between the two. The first rail service going west from Newport to Cardiff is 6-10am. The city itself only has three railway stations.

And if you look at the typical commuting flows (all modes) between Cardiff - Newport - Bristol, these are equivalent to those between Liverpool and Manchester. Yet rail services are confined typically confined to 2 tph between those centres (or 4 if you factor in Bristol Parkway). I won't mention how crowded those services despite the recent increase in carriages (which is welcomed).

Tom Quinne · 5 Jun 2019

krus_aragon said:
While I accept that those living in the local area will have different opinions to those from further away, I think this last point may have drifted towards hyperbole. If the public transport workers are on their way to work at stupid o'clock, they won't find much road traffic at that time, will they?

Their return journey may land them in rush hour traffic, but I'm not sure if that's the point you were trying to make.

I see your point, and to be honest I wasn’t really thinking about going home after work as you aren’t deadlined - as in you need to be in for say 0600 etc.

Regards the M4 it’s busy to at a stand from 0600 right through the day until 2000 everyday now, when there’s been an incident of accident the Newport Southern Distributor Road becomes gridlocked as well, add then people still trying to get across Newport rapidly becomes totally gridlocked even local residential streets, let lone the main through roads.

Public transport of course then goes into meltdown as timetables go out the window.

59CosG95 · 25 Jun 2019

News in...
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news.../south-wales-metro-eci-contracts-awarded.html

Balfour Beatty, Alun Griffiths (part of Tarmac) and Siemens have been awarded ECI (Early Contractor Involvement) contracts by TfW for the South Wales Metro; the contracts cover planning and design of the control systems, trackwork, stations and the maintenance depot at Taff’s Well.

Nick Ashwell · 25 Jun 2019

Am I the only one that feels the improvements to services will take too long to have health benefits to the population? Chepstow is one of the most polluted places in the UK, beating out the majority of city centers yet we're going to be waiting three more years for an hourly service. Our bus services are even worse and I may have to move just to be able to breath properly because of the lack of public transport!

Plus for good measure to get a bypass the Welsh have told the English they'll have to pay

Brissle Girl · 25 Jun 2019

Nick Ashwell said:
Am I the only one that feels the improvements to services will take too long to have health benefits to the population? Chepstow is one of the most polluted places in the UK, beating out the majority of city centers yet we're going to be waiting three more years for an hourly service. Our bus services are even worse and I may have to move just to be able to breath properly because of the lack of public transport!

Plus for good measure to get a bypass the Welsh have told the English they'll have to pay

Do you think that with HGVs no longer having an incentive to use the A48 southbound,the air quality will be better when next measured? What else might be driving such a high reading in a relatively non-built up area in comparison with major cities?

Nick Ashwell · 25 Jun 2019

Brissle Girl said:
Do you think that with HGVs no longer having an incentive to use the A48 southbound,the air quality will be better when next measured? What else might be driving such a high reading in a relatively non-built up area in comparison with major cities?

The air quality is measured daily and due to the lack of a bypass (we have a 70s one but that goes through the town) traffic is nearly stationary daily. HGVs either have to go through Chepstow or route down from Gloucester and with most distribution centers being located in Bristol it's obvious which routing is cheaper. A new bridge is planned near Lydney (if it goes ahead) near the location of the original railway crossing. HGVs h

Dai Corner · 25 Jun 2019

The stats are available here (though I dint know enough to interpret them)

https://airquality.gov.wales/air-pollution/site/CHEP#latestdata

PaulHarding150 · 26 Jun 2019

Cardiff Bus blame the lack of a bus station (among other factors) for their continued financial worries:

Action needs to be taken to stop Cardiff Bus losing money, an opposition councillor has said.
The council-owned company says it lost £886,000 before tax in 2018/19, on top of £1.9m lost the year before.
It has blamed the lack of a central bus station, along with congestion, competition and online shopping.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48758070

Brissle Girl · 26 Jun 2019

Dai Corner said:
The stats are available here (though I dint know enough to interpret them)

https://airquality.gov.wales/air-pollution/site/CHEP#latestdata

Agree, I've tried several times to interpret them, to no avail. Maybe it's deliberate not to publish anything that the general public can understand.

Brissle Girl · 26 Jun 2019

Nick Ashwell said:
The air quality is measured daily and due to the lack of a bypass (we have a 70s one but that goes through the town) traffic is nearly stationary daily. HGVs either have to go through Chepstow or route down from Gloucester and with most distribution centers being located in Bristol it's obvious which routing is cheaper. A new bridge is planned near Lydney (if it goes ahead) near the location of the original railway crossing. HGVs h

I'm probably being a bit thick, but I'm not sure what the HGV flow is that is contributing to the poor air quality. Until the tolls were removed, there was substantial HGV traffic avoiding them by using the A48 southbound from Gloucester to Chepstow, but that shouldn't be a problem now. But that doesn't seem to be what you're referring to.

Nick Ashwell · 26 Jun 2019

During rush hour they need to be banned, Chepstow is polluted enough as it is during rush hour without HGVs being allowed through during rush hour. The problem with the above air quality data is it's hourly, during the morning rush Chepstow can hit 90/100 for pollution

krus_aragon · 26 Jun 2019

Brissle Girl said:
Agree, I've tried several times to interpret them, to no avail. Maybe it's deliberate not to publish anything that the general public can understand.

I can give some initial guidance: PM2.5 and PM10 are particulate matter (e.g. dust, smog, pollen, etc) smaller than 2.5 micrometres and 10 micrometres respectively. BAM (beta attenuation monitoring) is a method of measuring the concentration of the smaller size of particulate matter. NO and NO2 are Nitric Oxide and Nitrogen Dioxide. The last row considers NO and NO2 together. The Index values are presumably from the UK's Air Quality Index.

DPWH · 26 Jun 2019

Nick Ashwell said:
During rush hour they need to be banned, Chepstow is polluted enough as it is during rush hour without HGVs being allowed through during rush hour. The problem with the above air quality data is it's hourly, during the morning rush Chepstow can hit 90/100 for pollution

Though as I understand it HGV drivers usually take their mandatory breaks during rush hour to avoid getting stuck in traffic - you might as well rest in a layby as the roads are slow anyway, and if you drive during rush hour you then have to take the break at another time.

Nick Ashwell · 26 Jun 2019

DPWH said:
Though as I understand it HGV drivers usually take their mandatory breaks during rush hour to avoid getting stuck in traffic - you might as well rest in a layby as the roads are slow anyway, and if you drive during rush hour you then have to take the break at another time.

That doesn't work when the distribution centers are only over in Bristol!

Cardiff123 · 26 Jun 2019

PaulHarding150 said:
Cardiff Bus blame the lack of a bus station (among other factors) for their continued financial worries:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48758070

The lack of a bus station in central Cardiff is a scandal. The old old one should never have been closed without finance being fully secured for the new one, which is going to be much smaller so still won't have the capacity of the old one anyway.
But Rightacres flashed the ££££'s in front of the council, and in a time of crippling council cuts, how could they refuse.
By the time the new one is finally opened it'll be around 7 years that Cardiff has been without a bus station for.

Dai Corner · 26 Jun 2019

Nick Ashwell said:
That doesn't work when the distribution centers are only over in Bristol!

Where would the HGVs from Bristol be going? For Gloucester and north thereof they'd use the M5. For Monmouth the M4 and A449 (that's what Google Maps suggests anyway). That just leaves Chepstow itself, Lydney and the Forest of Dean which surely can't generate a huge amount of freight traffic?

Cardiff123 · 4 Jul 2019

A public transport system like this for Cardiff has been desperately needed for decades. Getting out to the east of the city by bus can take an age, I really hope this gets the go ahead, but a 10 year timescale is far too long to wait.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-crossrail-public-transport-bike-16526043.amp?

In a strategy designed to arrest growing car congestion and air pollution issues, it will propose new tram-train routes across the city which are also connected up with major housing developments currently not on the rail network, like the Plasdwr development in the west.

The ‘Cardiff Crossrail’ project could also see tram-trains running from Cardiff Central Station and across Callaghan Square down to the Bay and potentially extending beyond to Rover Way and linking up with the proposed Cardiff Parkway Station at St Mellons.

It is understood that the early stage vision, for which funding potentially running into hundreds of millions of pounds would have to be secured over a decade of phased investment, would also see new park and ride hubs across the city - integrating bus and rail services, supported by a new single transport ticketing system.

New bus routes, aligned to rail timetables, are also expected to be included that will take passengers across the city, but without the need to come into the centre.

The vision will focus on improving integrated transport for some of the capital’s most deprived communities. It will also have a focus on cyclists with an increase in Nextbike provision across the city, particularly at new park and ride hubs. The council has already identified new dedicated cycle routes in the city centre, which are expected to be significantly increased under the new plans.

Detailed funding plans will now have to be worked up, but with the UK and Welsh governments expected to form part of any funding solution.

However, as one of the densest urban areas outside of London in the UK, ‘Cardiff Crossrail’ should score well on UK Treasury return on investment assessment of rail enhancement projects. If realised, it would significantly reduce the number of car journeys, particularly for commuting, and get far more people using public transport - in turn boosting the financial case.

The proposals would be in addition to the next phase of the South Wales Metro project, which by 2022 will see the Core Valley Lines into Cardiff and the Coryton Line electrified.

The current proposals would see tram-trains operating only as far as in front of the Wales Millennium Centre, with tram-trains operating in battery mode.
The vision from the council will be to extend the network, with tram-trains in places potentially running in battery mode on street, while being able to switch to electric mode on existing heavy rail lines or new rail routes.

Jorge Da Silva · 4 Jul 2019

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2019...-plans-to-transform-transport-in-the-capital/

New tram network revealed in Cardiff Council's ambitious £1bn plans to transform transport in the capital

Credit: Artist impression

Cardiff Council has revealed ambitious plans for a £1bn upgrade to its transport network across the capital.

The "game-changing vision", which includes a new "cross rail" tram network has been designed to cut congestion and improve air quality, the leader of the council announced.

Cllr Huw Thomas, said that "urgent investment is needed" warning the city will "grind to a halt" if changes are not made.

The proposed Cross Rail tram network has been published Credit: Cardiff Council

What is being proposed?

The plans include a Cardiff Cross Rail, a new light rail/tram line from east to west Cardiff and a joined up line linking "large residential areas" to the transport network.

The council also announced new "safe cycleways" and an integrated ticketing system which will allow people to "move seamlessly from one transport mode to another" and making Cardiff a "20mph city".

Safe cycleways in the city centre are among the plans Credit: Cardiff Council/Artist impression
Cllr Thomas said: “Cardiff’s transport network needs to change. It was originally designed for a city with a population of 200,000, but today our population is closer to 400,000 and there are another 80,000 commuters travelling into the city by car every day."

He added the new plans will "transform the way people move around" the city by 2030.

Cabinet Member for Strategic Planning and Transport,Cllr Caro Wild, said: “Get transport right and it’s a game changer. It adds real impetus to a city’s economic development agenda. It helps tackle inequality by better connecting people with opportunity. It improves quality of life and provides a visible pointer to the city’s environmental credentials.

Plans on how the £1bn proposal will be paid for have not yet been revealed.

Rental bikes would be free for under 18s Credit: PA Images

The plans in detail:

A light rail/tram line that connects central Cardiff with major population centres to the east and west. It will include a new station at Rover Way/Newport Road, via the docks, Lloyd George Avenue and the City

Line to the northwest of Cardiff and into Rhondda Cynon Taff

A "complete light rail or tram Circle Line" around Cardiff which connects the Coryton line to the Taff Vale line north of Radyr

Establish a network of "bus priority corridors" that link Park and Rides around the city for faster routes into and across Cardiff

New and/or improved bus and bus-rail interchange stations across the city to allow easy change from one mode to another

Free school bus travel for students 18 and under and discounted bus fares for job seekers

Making neighbourhoods ‘active travel zones’ through schemes which give walking and cycling greater priority over cars

Nextbike hubs at secondary schools and recreational facilities with free travel on nextbike for under 18s

Redesigning road junctions and traffic light prioritisationto give more time to pedestrians and cyclists

Making Cardiff a 20mph city

Cardiff Crossrail has been revealed

Any thoughts

Del1977 · 4 Jul 2019

There's a better image of the map on an updated Wales Online page: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-crossrail-map-transport-trams-16529975

Dai Corner · 4 Jul 2019

Jorge Da Silva said:
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2019...-plans-to-transform-transport-in-the-capital/

Any thoughts

The key phrase is

Plans on how the £1bn proposal will be paid for have not yet been revealed.

I'd suggest the Speculative Ideas forum is a more suitable place to discuss this, keeping this thread for what's actually happening?

Cardiff123 · 4 Jul 2019

Dai Corner said:
The key phrase is

I'd suggest the Speculative Ideas forum is a more suitable place to discuss this, keeping this thread for what's actually happening?

Well it's not speculative in that it's the ideas of enthusiasts, it's a government proposed project.

Tom Quinne · 4 Jul 2019

Cancel the relief road, then build a tram in Cardiff !

Smashing idea, meanwhile Roma burns !

PaulHarding150 · 4 Jul 2019

Two tweets with interesting maps re: the above scheem

https://twitter.com/cardiffcouncil/status/1146729157709185024

https://twitter.com/cardiffcouncil/status/1146729776704630785

I wonder if the Metro Team and the 'Cardiff CrossRail' planners have got together? I fear this is a example of non-joined up working.

EDIT: Tweet and tread from the leader of Cardiff Council: https://twitter.com/huwthomas_Wales/status/1146732650872356870

Parts will become reality within 2 years, other elements will take support from multiple partners to deliver - so let's get to work!

tomos dafis · 4 Jul 2019

Cardiff123 said:
The lack of a bus station in central Cardiff is a scandal. The old old one should never have been closed without finance being fully secured for the new one, which is going to be much smaller so still won't have the capacity of the old one anyway.
But Rightacres flashed the ££££'s in front of the council, and in a time of crippling council cuts, how could they refuse.
By the time the new one is finally opened it'll be around 7 years that Cardiff has been without a bus station for.

I totally agree!! And by the way, over the past weeks I've seen very little progress on the site of the new bus station when entering Cardiff central by rail. Has the project stalled for some reason?
A capital city with no central bus station is a joke, especially to visitors coming to see the place or attend major events.

CapitalStar378 · 4 Jul 2019

It's a great aspiration but how much will we actually see? There's no comment from TfW or Keolis/Amey and some of these schemes differ from the current plans quite substantially.

The Llantrsiant/Beddau extension is kicked into the long grass and the traffic there is already horrendous. The Abertillery branch from the Ebbw Valley line is nowhere to be seen.

tomos dafis · 4 Jul 2019

I will believe this extra plan for Crossrail Cardiff when/if I see it ( I may have shuffled off this mortal coil by then!). I still have reservations that the existing plans for the metro will be realised on time and/or in full.
Plus no mention of easing traffic around Newport following cancellation of the M4 relief road - the maps don't even show the planned direct rail link from Ebbw Vale to Newport - which leads me to think that this focuses on flows into and around Cardiff only.
This begs the question as to how people in the rest of Wales will feel about £1 bn being spent on transport in/around Cardiff alone (if indeed this money can be raised).
Is Wales going to become like England with Cardiff and the South East sucking in most of the investment/spending?

Tom Quinne · 4 Jul 2019

Becoming? It has been for the last 30 years.

Outside the Cardiff bubble is a wasteland, but...local/city councils are as much to blame, how much and many investment opportunities has Newport missed out on as our city council hasn’t the ability or will do fight our Corner.

Del1977 · 4 Jul 2019

I think I'm feeling quite optimistic with respect to these plans. Good to see that there are at least outline plans to deal with Cardiff's local transport issues and that the SW Metro proposals weren't the end of the line, so to speak.

If I were Cardiff Council, I'd have levied a charge on each new home built in the Plasdwr area to help fund the public transport improvements.

And I think the potential for central Government funding is probably higher than most people think. If BoJo is elected, well he's a fan of grand projects and will be looking to spend his way out of unpopularity over Brexit, and if it's Jeremy Corbyn then he's likely to splash cash around too.

Cardiff123 · 4 Jul 2019

These proposals are from Cardiff Council alone, nothing to do with TfW, Keolis Amey and Welsh Govt at this stage. Hence why the plans are Cardiff-centric, but the full map proposals includes Aberdare - Hirwaun.

Here's the full map proposals: https://twitter.com/cardiffcouncil/status/1146729157709185024?s=19

South Wales 'Metro' updates

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Member

Member

Member

Member

On Moderation

Member

Established Member