• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Help!! North camp to Wembley Central route

Status
Not open for further replies.

ciderbilly

Member
Joined
27 Aug 2012
Messages
14
Hello.

I have just boughta North camp to Wembley central ticket ( not valid via london terminals although didnt say that till printed) ticket from the machine and need to get to Wembley and currently on the train to Reading. Any ideas how i complete my journey without actually going to a terminal. I think my options are Waterloo and Paddington both invalid with this ticket. Im stumped.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Joined
12 Dec 2018
Messages
39
At a guess i'd assume the ticket is intended for journeys where from reading, you take a waterloo train as far as richmond, change to overground round to Wilsden junction, then down the dc lines to wembley.
 

ciderbilly

Member
Joined
27 Aug 2012
Messages
14
Thanks for help pal. I approached the ticket inspector and paid a excess fee to allow me to go to Paddington. He couldn't offer any valid routes.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
I suspect the idea is that you are supposed to use either SWR to Clapham Junction and then the West London Line Overground or Southern services, or GWR to Wokingham changing to SWR to Richmond, then North London Line changing at Willesden Jn.

Note that for many suggested routes National Rail enquires starts with a walk from North Camp to Ash Vale on the Waterloo via Woking line. Starting with a walk seems to generate a lot of debate...

I’m not at all sure if “via Reading” is a valid route for that ticket (as you have now found onboard the train) - others will know better.
 
Last edited:

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
The intended use of this ticket is to avoid London, going via Guildford or Ash Vale, and then via Clapham Junction, Kensington Olympia and Willesden Junction.

The guard was very much in the wrong if they suggested that there were no valid routes and therefore you had to pay an additional fare. It is fundamentally not permissible to sell a ticket for one price and then to say that you need to pay an additional fare to actually use it!

If, of course, what he meant is that if you wanted to continue along the route you were using that you needed to pay an additional fare, then this was correct - if you were indeed following a route otherwise than that which you selected when buying the ticket.
 

MarlowDonkey

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2013
Messages
1,094
Any ideas how i complete my journey without actually going to a terminal.

You could take the GWR stopper from Reading to Ealing, Central Line to Shepherds Bush and then the West London line service to Wembley. Probably still not a valid route.
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
You could take the GWR stopper from Reading to Ealing, Central Line to Shepherds Bush and then the West London line service to Wembley. Probably still not a valid route.
Nope, not a permitted route. and most problematically of all you'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if caught whilst on the Underground leg as the ticket has no Underground validity whatsoever.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Note that for many suggested routes National Rail enquires starts with a walk from North Camp to Ash Vale on the Waterloo via Woking line. Starting with a walk seems to generate a lot of debate...
It can do, but shouldn't do in this situation. Ash Vale is a valid routeing point for North Camp on a North Camp-Wembley Central ticket. This means that a ticket gives you the right to catch three trains to get to North Camp and continue from there without any walking. As there is no break of journey restriction on any of the tickets offered for the journey, missing out those trains to start your rail journey at Ash Vale is also permitted.

I know there is a line in the routeing guide that says that any routeing point which doesn't have a direct train from a station associated with it should be ignored, but I don't think it's a very practical idea, and the web sites I've tried don't seem to take account of it.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
The intended use of this ticket is to avoid London, going via Guildford or Ash Vale, and then via Clapham Junction, Kensington Olympia and Willesden Junction.

The guard was very much in the wrong if they suggested that there were no valid routes and therefore you had to pay an additional fare. It is fundamentally not permissible to sell a ticket for one price and then to say that you need to pay an additional fare to actually use it!

If, of course, what he meant is that if you wanted to continue along the route you were using that you needed to pay an additional fare, then this was correct - if you were indeed following a route otherwise than that which you selected when buying the ticket.
I took the original poster’s point to mean that the inspector (or guard?) on the train to Reading couldn’t find an onward route from Reading along the GWML that wouldn’t involve Paddington and/or London Underground, neither of which would be permitted for the original not via London ticket without a “Maltese Cross”.
 
Last edited:

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,267
It can do, but shouldn't do in this situation. Ash Vale is a valid routeing point for North Camp on a North Camp-Wembley Central ticket. This means that a ticket gives you the right to catch three trains to get to North Camp and continue from there without any walking. As there is no break of journey restriction on any of the tickets offered for the journey, missing out those trains to start your rail journey at Ash Vale is also permitted...
Isn’t the practical explanation in this case that, given a choice of stations in the vicinity of his origin, the OP made the wrong choice? Obviously there’s nothing to tell you about this on a TVM of course. Perhaps the ticket he bought should display a different “Routeing”, as going via Reading effectively leads you to a dead end.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,434
Location
Yorkshire
Hello.

I have just boughta North camp to Wembley central ticket ( not valid via london terminals although didnt say that till printed) ticket from the machine and need to get to Wembley and currently on the train to Reading. Any ideas how i complete my journey without actually going to a terminal. I think my options are Waterloo and Paddington both invalid with this ticket. Im stumped.
Once on the train to Reading, you could have changed at Wokingham & Clapham Junction (also to change at Richmond/Willesden Jn, but this is slower)

But it would have been faster to take a train to Farnborough North, walk to Main, then go non-stop to Clapham Junction.

Or even faster would be to walk to Ash Vale and take a train to Clapham Jn from there (note: if doing that, it's cheaper to buy a ticket from Ash Vale to Surbiton and another from Surbiton to Wembley Central).

At Clapham Junction, if there is a train to Willesden Jn before the next Wembley Central direct, it's generally quicker to change at Willesden Jn.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,867
Location
Airedale
NRE gives routes via Wokingham and Richmond, Guildford Clapham Jn and Richmond, as well as the walk to Ash Vale. The Kensington route doesnt show for some reason.
No via London terminals routes show so must always be slower (at least in theory).
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,434
Location
Yorkshire
NRE gives routes via Wokingham and Richmond, Guildford Clapham Jn and Richmond, as well as the walk to Ash Vale. The Kensington route doesnt show for some reason..
Today? That'll be due to engineering works. The fastest journeys tomorrow are via Kensington Olympia.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,867
Location
Airedale
Today? That'll be due to engineering works. The fastest journeys tomorrow are via Kensington Olympia.

That's what I guessed but didnt have time to check. And Reading-Paddington-Bakerloo does show up on a Saturday even if it's not the quickest.

If the GW guard was on the North Downs line, then it's poor that they couldn't find an alternative route, but it will depend on how the conversation went.

And it's unfortunate that the OP didn't check which way he should leave North Camp, given the options.
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
The intended use of this ticket is to avoid London, going via Guildford or Ash Vale, and then via Clapham Junction, Kensington Olympia and Willesden Junction.

The guard was very much in the wrong if they suggested that there were no valid routes and therefore you had to pay an additional fare. It is fundamentally not permissible to sell a ticket for one price and then to say that you need to pay an additional fare to actually use it!

If, of course, what he meant is that if you wanted to continue along the route you were using that you needed to pay an additional fare, then this was correct - if you were indeed following a route otherwise than that which you selected when buying the ticket.

Don't blame the Guard he was giving correct travel advice!
There was no Overground services on Sat 06 & 07 July from Clapham Jct to Willesden Jct and elsewhere on their network due to booked engineering schedule.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,434
Location
Yorkshire
Don't blame the Guard he was giving correct travel advice!
There was no Overground services on Sat 06 & 07 July from Clapham Jct to Willesden Jct and elsewhere on their network due to booked engineering schedule.
It was, however, possible to change at Richmond.

If the conversation took place before Wokingham, then it would have been perfectly valid to change at Wokingham, Richmond and Willesden Jn without paying the excess.

If the train had already departed Wokingham then it would be correct to issue the excess fare.
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
Once on the train to Reading, you could have changed at Wokingham & Clapham Junction (also to change at Richmond/Willesden Jn, but this is slower)

But it would have been faster to take a train to Farnborough North, walk to Main, then go non-stop to Clapham Junction.

Or even faster would be to walk to Ash Vale and take a train to Clapham Jn from there (note: if doing that, it's cheaper to buy a ticket from Ash Vale to Surbiton and another from Surbiton to Wembley Central).

At Clapham Junction, if there is a train to Willesden Jn before the next Wembley Central direct, it's generally quicker to change at Willesden Jn.

But as in my original response to post #5 there is supposition that the Guard was not offering correct advice, as the OP stated very briefly he got his ticket excessed from a ticket inspector, job done.
Let's not speculate If railway staff are not correctly carrying out their duties.

There have been no services from Richmond Overground this weekend, again to booked engineering work - as previously mentioned.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,434
Location
Yorkshire
But as in my original response to post #5 there is supposition that the Guard was not offering correct advice, as the OP stated very briefly he got his ticket excessed from a ticket inspector, job done.
Let's not speculate If railway staff are not correctly carrying out their duties.
We can only go by the information posted; we were told "Thanks for help pal. I approached the ticket inspector and paid a excess fee to allow me to go to Paddington. He couldn't offer any valid routes." so I stand by what I said in post #16.

There have been no services from Richmond Overground this weekend, again to booked engineering work - as previously mentioned.
Did this train not run: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L66910/2019/07/06/advanced ?
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
We can only go by the information posted; we were told "Thanks for help pal. I approached the ticket inspector and paid a excess fee to allow me to go to Paddington. He couldn't offer any valid routes." so I stand by what I said in post #16.


Did this train not run: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L66910/2019/07/06/advanced ?

We can only go by the in formation to hand!

I see where you are coming from, but the 'passenger train alteration notices' include the following engineering works info to supplied to TOC staff as here:
TFL Engineering Works
Line Date
London Overground
Saturday 6th & Sunday 7th July Willesden Junction to Clapham Junction
Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction
Liverpool Street to Enfield Town, Cheshunt via
Seven Sisters & Chingford
TfL Rail/ Elizabeth Line Saturday 6th July Liverpool Street to Stratford
Information correct at time of going to print. Please check the website below for up to date details:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/default.html
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,434
Location
Yorkshire
We can only go by the in formation to hand!

I see where you are coming from, but the 'passenger train alteration notices' include the following engineering works info to supplied to TOC staff as here:
TFL Engineering Works
Line Date
London Overground
Saturday 6th & Sunday 7th July Willesden Junction to Clapham Junction
Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction
Liverpool Street to Enfield Town, Cheshunt via
Seven Sisters & Chingford
TfL Rail/ Elizabeth Line Saturday 6th July Liverpool Street to Stratford
Information correct at time of going to print. Please check the website below for up to date details:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/default.html
That doesn't mention the Richmond to Stratford service, and journey planners were giving itineraries.
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,504
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
Don't blame the Guard he was giving correct travel advice!
There was no Overground services on Sat 06 & 07 July from Clapham Jct to Willesden Jct and elsewhere on their network due to booked engineering schedule.

Nothing like bashing a member of railway staff for being helpful and actually giving the customer what they probably wanted in the first place... let's find a technicality to complain about them and put a claim in :lol:
 

nuts & bolts

Member
Joined
24 Jan 2015
Messages
244
Location
B & H
I hold my hands up - I lost the plot and went off on a tangeant, Richmond just got stuck up in the grey area for a while.
 

MarlowDonkey

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2013
Messages
1,094
Nope, not a permitted route. and most problematically of all you'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if caught whilst on the Underground leg as the ticket has no Underground validity whatsoever.

If you really wanted to use the route via Ealing Broadway, I suppose it would have to be a split ticket. National Rail to Ealing Broadway and Oyster/contactless beyond.
 

ciderbilly

Member
Joined
27 Aug 2012
Messages
14
Thanks for the overwhelming response.

The gaurd was most helpful but just couldn't find a route and to save a lot of hassle and make the journey a lot easier i paid the couple of quid excess on his recommendation and went via Paddington.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top