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When direct services finish early why not allow people to use indirect services?

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infobleep

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When direct services finish early, wouldn't it make sense to allow people to travel via an indirect routes.

For example Horsham to Dorking. On Saturdays the last service is at 18:14. The remaining five services are via Redhill and there are no valid fares.

Whilst it may be considered that there isn't enough traffic to run trains, you'd think there would be a few people who want to go out to Horsham for an evening and go back to Dorking or the reverse.

Monday to Friday the last train is 21:14. I can't imagine there is more demand on a Monday evening but I don't know what the commuter traffic is like. However regardless, there are trains via Redhill, just that tickets aren't valid that way.

I see a ticket to Gomshall is valid mind you but not everyone will know to put that station in, instead of Dorking.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I completely agree that this is stupid - a fare should be offered, issued in one piece, by any route a passenger wishes to take. How the railway calculates it is up to them, and I see no particular reason it shouldn't be higher to avoid anomalies.
 

kieron

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For example Horsham to Dorking. On Saturdays the last service is at 18:14. The remaining five services are via Redhill and there are no valid fares.
Am I missing something, or are all Horsham-Dorking Stations fares valid via Redhill?

More generally, there are some very indirect tickets late at nght. You can travel from Sheffield to Huddersfield on the 3:24 Sheffield-Manchester train and the 5:10 Manchester-Newcastle one, but you can't really expect a "not via Leeds" Sheffield-Huddersfield ticket to cover you for it.
 

ChrisC

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I don’t think there are any fares to Worksop from stations such as Mansfield and Hucknall on the Robin Hood Line on Sundays when there are no trains north of Mansfield Woodhouse. I’m not even sure whether there are alternative fares via Sheffield from Nottingham to Worksop on Sundays.
 

yorkie

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When direct services finish early, wouldn't it make sense to allow people to travel via an indirect routes.
In practice, most staff do!
For example Horsham to Dorking. On Saturdays the last service is at 18:14. The remaining five services are via Redhill and there are no valid fares.
This is incorrect. There are plenty of journey opportunities after 1814, at 1825, 1925, 2025, 2125, 2225 from Horsham and they are valid.
 
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infobleep

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In practice, most staff do!

This is incorrect. There are plenty of journey opportunities after 1814, at 1825, 1925, 2025, 2125, 2225 from Horsham and they are valid.
Well National Rail Enquiries App disagrees.

As the below imagines show, no ticket price shows up for Horsham to Dorking on Saturdays from 18:20 onwards. Maybe there is some reason for this.

Screenshot_20190708-091232_National Rail.jpg Screenshot_20190708-091243_National Rail.jpg
 

JB_B

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NRE Website finds plenty of journeys via Redhill to Deepdene if you ask for Dorking Stations.

horsham_dorking.png

If you specifically ask for Dorking (Main) it gets a bit confused (says ticket is valid for this journey only) but still finds the journeys.

AFAIK these are valid because of the shortest route rule.
 

gordonthemoron

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It would be nice to be able to do Luton Airport Parkway-Milton Keynes after Bedford-Bletchley line closes, by going via London on the same ticket
 

ForTheLoveOf

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It would be nice to be able to do Luton Airport Parkway-Milton Keynes after Bedford-Bletchley line closes, by going via London on the same ticket
It is possible - you just have to pay the excess to the via London fare. I don't think it's unreasonable in this situation to make people pay the extra if they're taking up space on busier via London trains. What would be unreasonable would be if there were no such option, and you were forced to go via Marston Vale even when the line is closed.
 

infobleep

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NRE Website finds plenty of journeys via Redhill to Deepdene if you ask for Dorking Stations.

View attachment 65465

If you specifically ask for Dorking (Main) it gets a bit confused (says ticket is valid for this journey only) but still finds the journeys.

AFAIK these are valid because of the shortest route rule.
You right about that. Didn't think to search for Dorking stations.

This came about after a friend said now nice Cheam and Dorking were as places for one to live and I then looked up Horsham to Dorking (Main) tickes, remembering services stopped early.
 

infobleep

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It is possible - you just have to pay the excess to the via London fare. I don't think it's unreasonable in this situation to make people pay the extra if they're taking up space on busier via London trains. What would be unreasonable would be if there were no such option, and you were forced to go via Marston Vale even when the line is closed.
£14.90 off peak single. vers £52.50 off peak single. I guess that's the price you pay if you make use of a line that isn't popular.

I'm using National Rail Enquiries App and choosing today. I don't know if advanced purchase tickets exist for this journey via London.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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£14.90 off peak single. vers £52.50 off peak single. I guess that's the price you pay if you make use of a line that isn't popular.

I'm using National Rail Enquiries App and choosing today. I don't know if advanced purchase tickets exist for this journey via London.
You couldn't exactly make the via London fare much cheaper without undercutting the price of Luton Airport Parkway to London or London to Milton Keynes.
 

BigCj34

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Carnforth to Leeds via Clapham (North Yorkshire) is notably cheaper than going via Manchester or Preston. It's also quicker, but the services are less frequent, the rolling stock older and the last train is earlier. You pay less for less flexibility in that regard.
 

Starmill

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What happens if you turn up at Preston on a Sunday morning, go to the ticket machine and buy a single to Ormskirk? It will happily sell you one for £6.30 without any possible indication that there might be something wrong. What about if you rock up at Cumbernauld early on a Sunday afternoon and purchase a ticket to Falkirk Stations, and then go and have a look at the timetable poster?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
What happens if you turn up at Preston on a Sunday morning, go to the ticket machine and buy a single to Ormskirk? It will happily sell you one for £6.30 without any possible indication that there might be something wrong. What about if you rock up at Cumbernauld early on a Sunday afternoon and purchase a ticket to Falkirk Stations, and then go and have a look at the timetable poster?

I believe now (according to the BR Fares website when I looked at it in the spring) there is the normal Any Permitted and a Not via Glasgow fare for journeys between Cumbernauld and Falkirk.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
You couldn't exactly make the via London fare much cheaper without undercutting the price of Luton Airport Parkway to London or London to Milton Keynes.

An alternative would be Luton Airport - West Hampstead Thameslink - West Hampstead North London Railway - Willesden Junction - then northbound. Unsure if there is a fare for that route though, even though it avoids London (Terminals).
 

infobleep

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You couldn't exactly make the via London fare much cheaper without undercutting the price of Luton Airport Parkway to London or London to Milton Keynes.
I'm sure you couldn't and there clearly isn't enough demand to run any more services on the cheaper route.
 

infobleep

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An alternative would be Luton Airport - West Hampstead Thameslink - West Hampstead North London Railway - Willesden Junction - then northbound. Unsure if there is a fare for that route though, even though it avoids London (Terminals).
When I looked up the journey, the last train on the National Rail Enquiries app was I think that route and no ticket price showed up.
 

yorkie

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It would be nice to be able to do Luton Airport Parkway-Milton Keynes after Bedford-Bletchley line closes, by going via London on the same ticket
You can do this.

If you already have an Off Peak Day return ticket, the excess would be £18.80 (assuming no Railcard held)
An alternative would be Luton Airport - West Hampstead Thameslink - West Hampstead North London Railway - Willesden Junction - then northbound. Unsure if there is a fare for that route though, even though it avoids London (Terminals).
The only routes available are "via Bedford" and "+ via London". If you want to travel via the Abbey Line or the North London Line, a combination of tickets would be best if you want to make a single journey. It would be problematic if you already held a return as there is no appropriate fare to excess to.
When I looked up the journey, the last train on the National Rail Enquiries app was I think that route and no ticket price showed up.
NRE's split ticketing facility is very limited; if you use an accredited split ticketing booking site you should be offered a combination of tickets for the journey.
 

infobleep

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NRE's split ticketing facility is very limited; if you use an accredited split ticketing booking site you should be offered a combination of tickets for the journey.
I wasn't checking for split ticketing, rather pointing out it wasn't valid on a single ticket but I certainly take your point.
 

arb

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One that annoys me personally is travelling from "the north" (in my case Sheffield) to Ely. This is only valid via Peterborough, and the last train from Peterborough to Ely arrives in Ely before 11pm. However it's possible to get from Peterborough to Ely via Stevenage and Cambridge, arriving at approximately 00:30, which translates into an approx 45 minute later departure from Sheffield. Unfortunately the route via Stevenage isn't allowed.

(I think that this might apply to all stations towards King's Lynn, not just Ely, but I haven't checked them all).
 

hooverboy

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You can do this.

If you already have an Off Peak Day return ticket, the excess would be £18.80 (assuming no Railcard held)

The only routes available are "via Bedford" and "+ via London". If you want to travel via the Abbey Line or the North London Line, a combination of tickets would be best if you want to make a single journey. It would be problematic if you already held a return as there is no appropriate fare to excess to.

NRE's split ticketing facility is very limited; if you use an accredited split ticketing booking site you should be offered a combination of tickets for the journey.
now if stagecoach had any joined up thinking when they ran EMR, they could have offered a "plus bus plus" ticket.
so from luton airport parkway(or london destination) to luton via train,and then direct link to MKC on the 99 coach.

maybe something for the new operator to consider.
as a single from luton-mkc is £6.40, then a plusbus option could probably be put on the ticket for less than £5 single/ £8 return
 

gordonthemoron

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now if stagecoach had any joined up thinking when they ran EMR, they could have offered a "plus bus plus" ticket.
so from luton airport parkway(or london destination) to luton via train,and then direct link to MKC on the 99 coach.

maybe something for the new operator to consider.
as a single from luton-mkc is £6.40, then a plusbus option could probably be put on the ticket for less than £5 single/ £8 return

The 99 coach (which I do use), ain't that great. Starts too late in the morning and finishes too early in the evening
 
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