Electrification in the Bristol area will happen - it has just been postponed.
Are you sure - my understanding is that a decision to complete or not will be made during CP6?
Electrification in the Bristol area will happen - it has just been postponed.
Nail hit on head regarding Reliefs Severn Tunnel - Cardiff.
While permitted for passenger use unlike true Goods lines, they’re “designed” for slow, heavy steel; ore and coal trains. The signalling is spaced out and geared towards that - to get more out of it for the presently very rare passenger trains using it would compromise that philosophy.
I think there was a Swansea-Bath stopper planned using EMUs.But thats not going to happen anytime soon.
I'm not familiar enough with this route to know, but it is typical for four-track sections to have parallel signals to reduce the risk of the driver reading across to signals on the other track. However you will probably find that they are four-aspect on the Main and three-aspect on the Relief, meaning that the braking distance between signals is halved and the speed on the Reliefs must be lower accordingly.I thought that the signalling was at the same spacing as the mains - on a common gantry? Surely, the ore & coal trains are long gone so it is mainly oil, container and steel coil trains as well as Ford engines from the soon to close works at Bridgend that appear on these tracks. My understanding is that these trains can travel at between 60 & 75mph. That being the case, it surely should not be a problem to fit in all stop electric commuter trains running between Cardiff & Bristol Temple Meads - and maybe on to Bath & Swindon? What about the Class 332 Heathrow Express trains that will soon be made redundant? Decent electric trains with no ‘home’ plus an electrified railway running through a fairly densely populated area. All seems to be a waste of resources to me when we could get more ‘value’ out of these electrified reliefs rather than let them go unused most of the time.
I also note that Mark Drakeford recently made the decision not to build a new M4 south of Newport to avoid the 2 lane each way tunnel that hinders the free movement of traffic in and out of south Wales. All the more reason therefore to use these relief lines for stopping electric trains that can accelerate quickly between the numerous stations that could be built on this section of line.
The problem there is that Filton to Bristol electrification is by no means certain. It was taken out of the GWML scheme along with Didcot-Oxford, and I would say if either is reinstated then Oxford would be the better choice as it would allow EMUs to operate London-Oxford which is really a commuter-type service, instead of using more expensive bi-modes or forcing people to change at Didcot. As it stands the only trains that would benefit from completing electrication around Bristol are currently bi-modes and the benefit of allowing these to run on electric instead of diesel power is not zero but is much smaller.The trouble with the idea of a Swansea > Bath stopper is that much of the route is going to be under the wires. Therefore, in using diesels, we are not going to get greatest value out of the investment that has been made in the electrification project. Indeed, if the Portsmouth to Cardiff diesel service is to remain for the time being, then surely it would be preferable to operate that to Swansea and just have an all stops electric service running on the reliefs between Cardiff & Temple Meads with perhaps an extension to Bath or even Swindon? This would help shift commuters say between Bath & Filton Abbey Wood or between Cardiff East Parkway and Newport for connection to express services. So, not only does such a service on the reliefs tap into new business & hopefully reduce traffic on the M4, M48, M32 & M49 but it also benefits long distance passengers who will not be subject to trains making frequent stops such as Keynsham & Magor - should it ever be built.
The use of electric stoppers on this route would also of course mean lack of fumes.
Wonderful news! Have the ATF and Earth wires all gone up on this stretch too?Just a quick update on the works in south Wales. As of this weekend ALL four roads are now fully wired from somerton iin newport to severn tunnel. Over the weekend, further wiring at Newport station has been put in place, with 3 of the 6 roads wired. I also believe that the down main over the Newport bridge may have also been wired. Will confirm this later on after work Monday morning
The Bristol Post s reporting a visit from Grayling and a promise to reform Bristol East Junction track and signalling by 2021. This contradicts that which MR was reporting in the current issue (not before 2024). Above, I was pessimistic. but perhaps there could be greater confidence about wiring from Parkway to TM in CP6, as the Bristol East project was stated as being required first?
That’s why he is in a fantastic position to make such a promise!Is Grayling in any position to make such a promise? He may not be Secretary of State for Transport in two months time, or indeed a Minister at all.
NR have a permitted development rights application going through the planning procedure at the moment for access to a work site and road rail plant access alongside Bristol East Jn. Gas Lane is the street location, planning reference is 19/01792/RA.The Bristol Post s reporting a visit from Grayling and a promise to reform Bristol East Junction track and signalling by 2021. This contradicts that which MR was reporting in the current issue (not before 2024). Above, I was pessimistic. but perhaps there could be greater confidence about wiring from Parkway to TM in CP6, as the Bristol East project was stated as being required first?
Thanks for the update Linda.Today I had a look at the IP line thru magor &undy. As I suspected, the up majn is still lacking its earth & return. This us also still the same for a section of the down relief as well.
On the subject if Severn tunnel and the earth straps, I was beginning to wonder if they could be replaced with a rubber coated earth and return wire. Would this maybe reduce the risk of the shirts and drop outs thru the tunnel?
What's the Midland shed at bristol? More platforms to open?
A Google Maps scan currently shows the south-western end of the original building as a conference space called "Brunel's Old Station"; the main shed itself is indeed a vehicle parking space. As mentioned many times upthread, the approach from the existing GWML into the Midland Shed is currently occupied by Bristol PSB.The Midland shed is on the left hand side from the ticket office as you are viewing from the station forecourt. These platforms are planned to be brought back into use and specially dedicated for the London Paddington via Stoke Gifford/Bristol Parkway trains.
I believe it is presently a vehicle and bicycle parking space if somebody local could confirm?
Not really, as the crossovers at Horbury are capable of 75mph. My betting is that the timetable space for them will be allocated and thought through - there is only 1tph from BRI to PAD via that route!Putting the London trains in the Midland shed means they have to cross the local services to get to the Filton fast lines - is that not a performance risk?
It's Horfield, I think you mean?Not really, as the crossovers at Horbury are capable of 75mph. My betting is that the timetable space for them will be allocated and thought through - there is only 1tph from BRI to PAD via that route!
It's Digby Wyatt, I think you mean?Temple meads is more complex than just the original Brunel building and the midland shed as the current station is actually three combined buildings. 1. Brunel original station now known as "the engine shed" & "Brunel's old Station". 2. The Digby Watt GWR / Bristol & Gloucester railway / Midland joint station 3. The post WW1 extension.
The plan is/was to take midland shed part of the Digby Watt station and reopen it as station rather than parking. As said by many the approaches to this part are currently blocked by Bristol PSB.
The original Brunel station is/was to remain in non railway usage, it is currently part event space and part start up incubator with ownership having transferred to Bristol City Council a few years ago. BR disposed of the space many, many years ago.
Correct! I can only apologise - didn't have the best night's sleep last night!It's Horfield, I think you mean?
It was called Midland Shed as that is where the trains from Gloucester Eastgate to Bristol via Mangotsfield terminated. Trains for beyond Bristol used through platforms. When local trains ceased after the closure of all stations between Gloucester and Bristol and Bath Green Park and Bristol the Shed became surplus and disused.The Midland shed is on the left hand side from the ticket office as you are viewing from the station forecourt. These platforms are planned to be brought back into use and specially dedicated for the London Paddington via Stoke Gifford/Bristol Parkway trains.
I believe it is presently a vehicle and bicycle parking space if somebody local could confirm?
Hasn’t it been suggested before that in normal circumstances all the trains via Bath including through and terminating and starting would still use the existing platforms? The theory being that having the two routes leaving from separate parts of the station ought to help prevent people accidentally getting on the wrong train?Yes, just going back to Digby Wyatt, I am sure that the extension to Brunel's shed came in 1870 and was designed by Sir Francis Fox, but I may be confusing that with the grand rebuilding of Temple Meads itself. I'll look that up unless someone can confirm in the meantime.
In any case, the issue for London trains via Badminton in future is that if they start from a reinstated train shed, they would probably stay on the relief line until beyond Narroways Junction and cross at Horfield, and trains via Bath would be faced with crossing the whole throat to get onto the Bath line. I have understood most of these will start from Weston or Taunton, so will call at the far eastern platforms, as at present, thus avoiding such a conflicting movement...
Yes, just going back to Digby Wyatt, I am sure that the extension to Brunel's shed came in 1870 and was designed by Sir Francis Fox, but I may be confusing that with the grand rebuilding of Temple Meads itself. I'll look that up unless someone can confirm in the meantime.
In any case, the issue for London trains via Badminton in future is that if they start from a reinstated train shed, they would probably stay on the relief line until beyond Narroways Junction and cross at Horfield, and trains via Bath would be faced with crossing the whole throat to get onto the Bath line. I have understood most of these will start from Weston or Taunton, so will call at the far eastern platforms, as at present, thus avoiding such a conflicting movement.
The outline plans I have seen for TM rebuilding involved a grand new entrance at the side of the train shed but who knows whether any of that will ever come about. As far as electrification is concerned, one could envisage a phase that only electrifies one side of TM, for the London trains via Badminton, but would one electrify just for those? I don't see any clear strategy for electrification to Bristol emerging at present.