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Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

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sd0733

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Saw 317663 today behing hauled away through Stratford around 1655 presumably off to Ely. Looked to be missing its pantograph
 
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Second. 317722 already gone to Ely. 317663 expected to follow.

Meanwhile, what (if anything) is happening to 317506 at Kilmarnock?

501 is Kilmarnock bound later this week- currently stopped at Ilford and has been there since the morning of the 29th June.

As for 506... it's a long time for a disabled toilet to be fitted since arriving at Kilmarnock on 9th October. One can only assume that's one massive turd that's got stuck in the pipes whilst being tested that is putting up one hell of a fight!

As for the remainder of the 317's, there's nothing else that's long term stopped currently.
 

Alfie1014

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Be interesting to see how they manage going forward as they’d been short forming before these latest moves/withdrawals. And they have already reduced the diagram base from May shortening two Stansted diagrams from 12 to 8. Are they still hiring to LO? Also wonder if this means the GE 317 diagram is more likely to be 321s?
 

bramling

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501 is Kilmarnock bound later this week- currently stopped at Ilford and has been there since the morning of the 29th June.

As for 506... it's a long time for a disabled toilet to be fitted since arriving at Kilmarnock on 9th October. One can only assume that's one massive turd that's got stuck in the pipes whilst being tested that is putting up one hell of a fight!

As for the remainder of the 317's, there's nothing else that's long term stopped currently.

One does wonder what will become of the 317s. The refurbished 317/2 units are rather nice inside. From a passenger point of view if any of the legacy trains are going to be kept I’d keep these over 321s, including the Renatus versions. The 317/1s will presumably go straight to scrap when the time comes.
 

samuelmorris

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One does wonder what will become of the 317s. The refurbished 317/2 units are rather nice inside. From a passenger point of view if any of the legacy trains are going to be kept I’d keep these over 321s, including the Renatus versions. The 317/1s will presumably go straight to scrap when the time comes.
Without them being PRM compliant, I can't see them being kept. The Renatus 321s are the most likely unless someone else wants them before the new fleet is sorted out.
 

Railperf

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Can anyone explain why the 31 or so 321's converted to Renatus standard seem mainly to be intermingled with the remainder of the 321 fleet, creating a real messy look and feel to the service? Is it really that difficult to keep the Renatus units coupled together as a subfleet?
coming back from Southend, had a 321/4 in FCC livery with a white GA 321 and a Renatus unit. It also creates an issue performance wise as they have different power / brake characteristics.
 

dk1

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Can anyone explain why the 31 or so 321's converted to Renatus standard seem mainly to be intermingled with the remainder of the 321 fleet, creating a real messy look and feel to the service? Is it really that difficult to keep the Renatus units coupled together as a subfleet?
coming back from Southend, had a 321/4 in FCC livery with a white GA 321 and a Renatus unit. It also creates an issue performance wise as they have different power / brake characteristics.
It wouldn't work as everything is so interworkable & then differing maintenance/fault issues. Add the covering of the Norwich IC diagram into the mix too & you can see why.
 

Alfie1014

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Can anyone explain why the 31 or so 321's converted to Renatus standard seem mainly to be intermingled with the remainder of the 321 fleet, creating a real messy look and feel to the service? Is it really that difficult to keep the Renatus units coupled together as a subfleet?
coming back from Southend, had a 321/4 in FCC livery with a white GA 321 and a Renatus unit. It also creates an issue performance wise as they have different power / brake characteristics.

Also come 01/01/20 I do wonder if one temporary way round the disability deadline will be to have one Renatus unit in every formation until the full fleet of new trains are in service? Plus at the moment having a mix of units gives pax the choice of natural air-con in the unrefurbed unit or a mobile sweat box in a Renatus unit!
 

Bikeman78

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I am surprised that the 317/6s are the first ones goings considering they seem to be in better condition than all the other 317s.
It's all to do with overhaul intervals. A lot of the 317/6 are coming up to eight years since their last body overhaul.
 

Bikeman78

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Thank you very much.

Out of the non-listed batch, I only require 657, 658, and 882 for haulage of which I will make those three my targets when I am in London mid July.
Put 657 at the top of your list. It's one of the longest since overhaul.
 
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Can anyone explain why the 31 or so 321's converted to Renatus standard seem mainly to be intermingled with the remainder of the 321 fleet, creating a real messy look and feel to the service? Is it really that difficult to keep the Renatus units coupled together as a subfleet?
coming back from Southend, had a 321/4 in FCC livery with a white GA 321 and a Renatus unit. It also creates an issue performance wise as they have different power / brake characteristics.

Yes. It's incredibly difficult to keep the renatus ones and the remainder of the 321's separate. The diagrams don't specifically allow the fleet to be kept separate- whilst it probably could be done with a lot of planning, it would also increase the workload across the business for both Train Planning, Depot/Yard Controllers and the Rolling Stock Controllers themselves hugely- which isn't practical with the workload being heavy enough as it is just to keep the wheels turning- without putting specific trains together just because it looks nice. There are also diagrams specifically for the 321/4 fleet (for 12 car operation on the Braintree and Southminster services), which also work with 321/3 diagrams.

Before my current role, I was a rolling stock allocator. Unit restrictions and maintenance requirements are the number one priority- once they're all managed and into the right diagrams, then whatever's left over just purely fills a gap. I completely understand what you mean about things looking messy- but it's one of those things at the moment unfortunately until the new fleet arrives. At least 321448 isn't in the mix anymore just to add another splash of colour!
 

capital12

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Not so much about the colour, but when I was in Norwich the other day I thought it would have been good if the Renatus units were able to be allocated to the Norwich runs now they feature all day.

At least it wouldn’t feel such a step down from the IC stock.
 

samuelmorris

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Not so much about the colour, but when I was in Norwich the other day I thought it would have been good if the Renatus units were able to be allocated to the Norwich runs now they feature all day.

At least it wouldn’t feel such a step down from the IC stock.
Predominantly they do - the Norwich 321 substitutions seem far more often Renatus units than not.
 

F Great Eastern

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I see the local lines are full of cancellations and short forms again.

I wonder how much this is going to cost Greater Anglia in revenue. I know several friends whose employers have pretty much instructed their staff to drive rather than use branch lines that the DMUs run, the level of disruption and short notice cancellations is not compatible with business travel.

Even leisure travel is a nightmare. With the good weather it would be the time that I'd take an Anglia Day Ranger or travel to the seaside by train with family, instead I'm driving because the train service cannot be relied on not to be uncomfortably overcrowded for little ones if the train runs at all.

Personally myself, I've used the train less in the last couple of months than I have for a long time, I'm avoiding anything o
 

samuelmorris

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I see the local lines are full of cancellations and short forms again.

I wonder how much this is going to cost Greater Anglia in revenue. I know several friends whose employers have pretty much instructed their staff to drive rather than use branch lines that the DMUs run, the level of disruption and short notice cancellations is not compatible with business travel.

Even leisure travel is a nightmare. With the good weather it would be the time that I'd take an Anglia Day Ranger or travel to the seaside by train with family, instead I'm driving because the train service cannot be relied on not to be uncomfortably overcrowded for little ones if the train runs at all.

Personally myself, I've used the train less in the last couple of months than I have for a long time, I'm avoiding anything o
Not a lot, the majority of GA's revenue comes from the mainline rather than the branches.
 

samuelmorris

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Admittedly, but still it cannot be good for these lines growth and passenger numbers when the reliability of service is so shocking.
Indeed not, and this is part of the reason why the service to rural areas is often so limited - there isn't the demand for the services to justify a regular service, because the quality of service offered is too low to generate that demand. And so the cycle continues...
 

Alfie1014

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Indeed not, and this is part of the reason why the service to rural areas is often so limited - there isn't the demand for the services to justify a regular service, because the quality of service offered is too low to generate that demand. And so the cycle continues...

That said in the state their finances appear to be in, (posted a £5.1M loss in 2018 according to NS published accounts compared to £29M profit for 2017), every penny counts. It’s also why they put up many non-regulated fares again in May and why they have recently introduced daily car parking charges of £3 at 17 rural stations where the average fares aren’t probably a lot more!
 

59CosG95

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Yes. It's incredibly difficult to keep the renatus ones and the remainder of the 321's separate. The diagrams don't specifically allow the fleet to be kept separate- whilst it probably could be done with a lot of planning, it would also increase the workload across the business for both Train Planning, Depot/Yard Controllers and the Rolling Stock Controllers themselves hugely- which isn't practical with the workload being heavy enough as it is just to keep the wheels turning- without putting specific trains together just because it looks nice. There are also diagrams specifically for the 321/4 fleet (for 12 car operation on the Braintree and Southminster services), which also work with 321/3 diagrams.

Before my current role, I was a rolling stock allocator. Unit restrictions and maintenance requirements are the number one priority- once they're all managed and into the right diagrams, then whatever's left over just purely fills a gap. I completely understand what you mean about things looking messy- but it's one of those things at the moment unfortunately until the new fleet arrives. At least 321448 isn't in the mix anymore just to add another splash of colour!
I saw a post on Facebook of 321448 in the siding at Clacton the other day - inquiring about its state, I was told that it's "awaiting repair". Perhaps not the end after all!
 

MrPIC

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I'd imagine most of the big bucks comes from the outer suburban stuff such as Southend, Colchester, Ipswich, Chelmsford, Cambridge, Bishops Stortford, Harlow, Braintree etc plus Stansted Airport trains seem busy all day these days.
 

Wivenswold

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Without them being PRM compliant, I can't see them being kept. The Renatus 321s are the most likely unless someone else wants them before the new fleet is sorted out.
Renatus units will almost certainly stay until the 720s are in service along with the 379s though the latter are more likely for the long-term as Bombardier can continue to service them from Ilford. Given their issues, I think GA will be happy to see the back of the Renatus fleet.
 

90sWereBetter

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Indeed not, and this is part of the reason why the service to rural areas is often so limited - there isn't the demand for the services to justify a regular service, because the quality of service offered is too low to generate that demand. And so the cycle continues...

I imagine the Yarmouth service has taken a fair hit from the X1/X11 bus service provided by First Eastern Counties, which has been built up over the last few years to four buses an hour between Norwich, Acle and Yarmouth most of the week compared to an unreliable hourly service from GA. The X2/X22 probably does a fair number compared to the Lowestoft trains as well.
 

samuelmorris

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Renatus units will almost certainly stay until the 720s are in service along with the 379s though the latter are more likely for the long-term as Bombardier can continue to service them from Ilford. Given their issues, I think GA will be happy to see the back of the Renatus fleet.
The operations staff certainly, but if they're cheap to lease...
 

Taylorgb19

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I just had a thought that when the class 720 comes out I wonder if they will do 2 five cars trains and then split at Colchester for Colchester town and Clacton and other places
 

thealm

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I just had a thought that when the class 720 comes out I wonder if they will do 2 five cars trains and then split at Colchester for Colchester town and Clacton and other places
That would be a good idea.
But wasn’t the services from Sudbury meant to be taking over the Colchester Town services.
 
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