ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

yorkie · 9 Jul 2019

Note: This thread is for Scotrail HST updates only. This is not a 'master thread'

If you wish to post about your experiences on one of these trains, please use the following thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-hst-trip-reports.185729/

If you wish to discuss Scotrail HST diagrams, please use this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-inter7city-hst-diagrams.171933/

If you wish to discuss Scotrail HST catering, please use this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-hst-catering.185732/

If you wish to post anything else, please create a thread (if there isn't one already) in the appropriate forum section (for example if you wish to discuss any ideas or post any speculation please use the https://www.railforums.co.uk/conversations/speculative-ideas.294643/ section).

RailUK Forums

mikey9 · 9 Jul 2019

jingsmonty said:
Just saw a refurbished set leaving Inverness about 10 mins ago, presume that's HA22 heading to Haymarket? With HA21 heading North to replace it for training (it's currently in Perth, I think) soon?

We were racing it down the A9 - they really do look good in full matching livery with a backdrop of mountains - I know where I would rather have been.....

Highlandspring · 9 Jul 2019

HA22 is currently sitting in Perth Carriage Sidings road 2.

hexagon789 · 9 Jul 2019

There was something scheduled out of Kilmarnock bound for Eastfield earlier, was this refurbished trailers or has that yet to commence?

PaxVobiscum · 10 Jul 2019

Speaking of HST movements and things passing, here’s a photo of Platform 7 at Queen Street the other day (warning: you may not wish to view this at full resolution o_O

)

Are all Seven Cities similarly sh^++¥?

I hope the unrefurbished HSTs are not allowed on the shiny new extended platforms 2 and 3 next month.

Highlandspring · 10 Jul 2019

Bangers and mash everywhere just like in the olden days. Makes you nostalgic, doesn’t it...

hexagon789 · 10 Jul 2019

PaxVobiscum said:
Speaking of HST movements and things passing, here’s a photo of Platform 7 at Queen Street the other day (warning: you may not wish to view this at full resolution )

View attachment 65565

Are all Seven Cities similarly sh^++¥?

I hope the unrefurbished HSTs are not allowed on the shiny new extended platforms 2 and 3 next month.

The fitting of tanks can't come soon enough.

At least it shows the HSTs are getting used more though!

PaxVobiscum · 10 Jul 2019

Highlandspring said:
Bangers and mash everywhere just like in the olden days. Makes you nostalgic, doesn’t it...

I had forgotten that description - so many years since I heard it.

Let’s hope Wabtec continue to strain themselves to squeeze out more refurbished sets ASAP.

DannyMich2018 · 10 Jul 2019

PaxVobiscum said:
I had forgotten that description - so many years since I heard it.

Let’s hope Wabtec continue to strain themselves to squeeze out more refurbished sets ASAP.

Well less than 25% of 26 trains are done and according to the railway press Wabtec are "aiming" to release one set per month so with 6 delivered in total and possibly up to 6 more this year, 12 next year and two more then we are looking at early 2021 till they are all done.

alangla · 10 Jul 2019

Highlandspring said:
Bangers and mash everywhere just like in the olden days. Makes you nostalgic, doesn’t it...

At Central, the biggest culprit appeared to be staff that couldn’t be bothered walking to the toilet & just used a parked 156. At least the flush locks stopped it being, er, released, though the next customer in the privy would have a ScotRail Surprise waiting for them. CETs is one thing I agree with the RMT on - they should be mandatory on all stock. Sleepers dumping grey water on the track doesn’t seem that bad, surprised that apparently needs to be tanked

hexagon789 · 10 Jul 2019

DannyMich2018 said:
Well less than 25% of 26 trains are done and according to the railway press Wabtec are "aiming" to release one set per month so with 6 delivered in total and possibly up to 6 more this year, 12 next year and two more then we are looking at early 2021 till they are all done.

That's a shame, considering that at the beginning of the year in sure they said they'd have most of the sets by December; though I think most of us were sceptical about that at the time anyway.

connormill · 11 Jul 2019

I see that the general consensus is that a classic HST is a step up in quality compared to a 170 and I'm not sure if I agree with that.

I'm currently on the 0549 Aberdeen to Edinburgh with is a classic and I just find the interior to be dated and tatty, the seats too close together and very hard.

The lack of under floor engineer noise and rumble is welcome, but the squeaks and creeks from the carriage are very noticeable. As is the fact the door between the saloon and the vestibule won't close.

The lighting is also very bright and "clinical".

I'm booked on a 170 home this afternoon and to be honest, I'm glad about it

hexagon789 · 11 Jul 2019

connormill said:
I see that the general consensus is that a classic HST is a step up in quality compared to a 170 and I'm not sure if I agree with that.

I'm currently on the 0549 Aberdeen to Edinburgh with is a classic and I just find the interior to be dated and tatty, the seats too close together and very hard.

The lack of under floor engineer noise and rumble is welcome, but the squeaks and creeks from the carriage are very noticeable. As is the fact the door between the saloon and the vestibule won't close.

The lighting is also very bright and "clinical".

I'm booked on a 170 home this afternoon and to be honest, I'm glad about it

The Classics did of course see little remedial work prior to entering service, so they are certainly a bit worn from GWR days, I think most people prefer the quiet and lack of rattles compared to a 170. The 80-seat layout is not liked by many, so you're not alone in finding the seats too close together in that respect and the lighting has often been criticised as too bright, but I believe there is a way a guard can sort that.

John Bishop · 11 Jul 2019

connormill said:
I'm booked on a 170 home this afternoon and to be honest, I'm glad about it

Maybe you may change your mind when the 170 is full and standing and you can’t get a seat. At least the classics are pretty much guaranteed you get a seat-All other things aside.

connormill · 11 Jul 2019

John Bishop said:
Maybe you may change your mind when the 170 is full and standing and you can’t get a seat. At least the classics are pretty much guaranteed you get a seat-All other things aside.

Reserved seat and it was always booked as 170 worried about actually getting it

Correct me if I'm wrong here. But a 4 car classic doesn't have that many mores class seats than a 170?

connormill · 11 Jul 2019

hexagon789 said:
The Classics did of course see little remedial work prior to entering service, so they are certainly a bit worn from GWR days, I think most people prefer the quiet and lack of rattles compared to a 170. The 80-seat layout is not liked by many, so you're not alone in finding the seats too close together in that respect and the lighting has often been criticised as too bright, but I believe there is a way a guard can sort that.

Totally understand that these coaches have had much work done as they are only intended to be a stop gap. And to be fair, if I was ScotRail I'd have done the same, so not criticising them on that front.

My point was more about the fact I've seen near universal agreement that a Classic is better all round than a 170, on that front I'm not so sure. I know the Refurbs are a class above, but as yet I've still never got one

hexagon789 · 11 Jul 2019

connormill said:
Totally understand that these coaches have had much work done as they are only intended to be a stop gap. And to be fair, if I was ScotRail I'd have done the same, so not criticising them on that front.

I didn't think you were, and I'm sure plenty of people agree they are a bit tatty.

connormill said:
My point was more about the fact I've seen near universal agreement that a Classic is better all round than a 170, on that front I'm not so sure. I know the Refurbs are a class above, but as yet I've still never got one

Well I appreciate that a Classic is perhaps in some respects a let-down, it's not refurbished, it's looking tired so I can understand some people preferring a generally better kempt 170. I think that the refurbs are a cut-above, when you finally get one I hope you'll agree!

connormill · 11 Jul 2019

hexagon789 said:
I think that the refurbs are a cut-above, when you finally get one I hope you'll agree!

Hopefully today's meeting is shorted than expected and I'll get the 1230 home, which is a refurb.

I'll take no reservation on the return over a reserved seat on a 170!

connormill · 11 Jul 2019

Managed to get the 1230 home.

Better than the Classic from this morning but I must admit I'm not blown away.
Still very clattery and squeaky. vestibule door stuck open again. PIS screen not working. Seats are not as comfortable as a 170 (although I think thats common amongst most new rolling stock anyway?)
Perhaps I'm spoiled for traveling to edinburgh as I got used to 380 and 385s when I lived down that way but they were bight and open, fast and quiet. They just felt more premium than these 40 year old HST's

Dare I say it, would 800s have been a better choice?

Highland37 · 11 Jul 2019

They might well still be. I don't reckon the HSTs will ever appear in full service. Too late and too unreliable.

hexagon789 · 11 Jul 2019

connormill said:
Dare I say it, would 800s have been a better choice?

There's a thread for that btw

route101 · 11 Jul 2019

connormill said:
Managed to get the 1230 home.

Better than the Classic from this morning but I must admit I'm not blown away.
Still very clattery and squeaky. vestibule door stuck open again. PIS screen not working. Seats are not as comfortable as a 170 (although I think thats common amongst most new rolling stock anyway?)
Perhaps I'm spoiled for traveling to edinburgh as I got used to 380 and 385s when I lived down that way but they were bight and open, fast and quiet. They just felt more premium than these 40 year old HST's

Dare I say it, would 800s have been a better choice?

I did notice heading north the ride north of Abroath was pretty bad . The 170s feel really slow now when you dont get them often

Struner · 11 Jul 2019

hexagon789 said:
There's a thread for that btw

Pointer?

hexagon789 · 12 Jul 2019

Struner said:
Pointer?

Apologies - this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-use-class-800-series-instead-of-hsts.185912/

Struner · 12 Jul 2019

hexagon789 said:
Apologies - this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-use-class-800-series-instead-of-hsts.185912/

Thanks.

Northhighland · 12 Jul 2019

hexagon789 said:
I didn't think you were, and I'm sure plenty of people agree they are a bit tatty.

Well I appreciate that a Classic is perhaps in some respects a let-down, it's not refurbished, it's looking tired so I can understand some people preferring a generally better kempt 170. I think that the refurbs are a cut-above, when you finally get one I hope you'll agree!

As a regular HML traveller my instinct is most passengers appreciate the classic over the noisy and cramped 170. Also no gust of cold air every time the door opens.

Not heard anyone Moaning at all.

hexagon789 · 12 Jul 2019

Northhighland said:
As a regular HML traveller my instinct is most passengers appreciate the classic over the noisy and cramped 170. Also no gust of cold air every time the door opens.

That was the impression I had.

Northhighland said:
Not heard anyone Moaning at all.

Neither had I tbh, but I can fully appreciate that the Classics might be tatty, but the refurbs looked really good IMO.

Highland37 · 12 Jul 2019

I have heard moaning, from my partner who is 36 week pregnant. A 1970s door is much more difficult than pressing a button in that situation. I am off to Pitlochry tomorrow so will report back on the traction. I am really hoping it's an HST!

Killingworth · 12 Jul 2019

Highland37 said:
I have heard moaning, from my partner who is 36 week pregnant. A 1970s door is much more difficult than pressing a button in that situation. I am off to Pitlochry tomorrow so will report back on the traction. I am really hoping it's an HST!

A 1970s door is a big improvement on a 1930s door with a thick leather strap and studs to hook the window down on. (Such contraptions were on each compartment of a train with no corridor.) I have visions of my then girl friend arriving on the train at Oxenholme and almost getting carried forward to Lancaster or Preston because she couldn't get the window down.

380101 · 12 Jul 2019

alangla said:
At Central, the biggest culprit appeared to be staff that couldn’t be bothered walking to the toilet & just used a parked 156. At least the flush locks stopped it being, er, released, though the next customer in the privy would have a ScotRail Surprise waiting for them. CETs is one thing I agree with the RMT on - they should be mandatory on all stock. Sleepers dumping grey water on the track doesn’t seem that bad, surprised that apparently needs to be tanked

You don't get enough time to walk up to the bothy in Central these days to anything! Nipping onto a 156 is a godsend when you're on a job with 5 min turnarounds!

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