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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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SteveM70

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Let's hope that, when all the 195s and 331s are in service, Northern can keep them on the correct routes as they seem unable to keep Pacers off Leeds - Manchester and 150s off Leeds - Nottingham.

All too often at the moment they’re using Pacers on Leeds - Chester which is a bit ridiculous
 
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ainsworth74

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Right, so this thread has just had a clean out because there was a massive amount of interesting, but quite off-topic discussion on it. As a reminder this thread is about the introduction and construction of Northern's class 195s. So the following discussions have all been moved to their own seperate threads where members are more than welcome to discuss those topics to their hearts content (they are links even though their not the colour of a link):
  1. Train toilets and the looming disability deadline
  2. Causes of TPE overcrowding
  3. Bi-mode versions of the CAF Civity platform
  4. Replacement of Northern 150s with more 195s
All four of those are interesting topic but all four are horribly off-topic in this thread.

So let me take this opportunity to issue a general reminder to everyone we do ask that people keep, as much as possible, to the topic of a thread without wandering too far off-topic. If you do see something that you would like to reply to but is off-topic then feel free to start a new thread with a link back to the thread that prompted your response. You can even hit the reply button on the post you want to respond to, copy the text that is generated in the reply box, then start a new thread and paste that text into the post box and when you start your thread a quote will appear of the post you wanted to respond to even though it's in a different thread!

The Forum, thankfully, has no restrictions on the size of our database or the amount of traffic (within reason :lol:) that we can handle. So use it! Start new threads! You're not going to send the Forum into meltdown or bankrupt us!!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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We needed to attend a follow-up meeting at Wigan at mid-day today, so we took the 1029 Northern Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness service as far as Wigan North Western. The unit was the named unit "Proud to be Northern", 195116. We were in coach A and by the time we left Manchester Oxford Road, the coach was very well loaded. We were on time until approaching Wigan North Western, where we were held for a couple of minutes.

Incidentally, when passing the new works at Springs Branch, on what once the curve that led to the Springs Branch line, can anyone confirm if unit washing facilities are being erected there.
 

superkev

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It's Huddersfield for Manchester crews down to capacity at Newton Heath depot with the new purpose built building at Newton Heath nowhere near ready
They seem to have been building the new purpose built building at Newton Heath for what seems like years. Competent operators usually have maintenance facilities in place before trains are expected let alone delivered. Is there some problem?
Any one any details of this building? I seem to remember it was just to house the ex Old Oak Common (now closed) wheel lathe.
K
 

Neptune

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A 195 was in the sidings at Huddersfield yesterday (Monday 8th July) Does this suggest that apart from Huddersfield crew training, they might appear on Leeds-Bradford-Huddersfield services?
No they aren’t. They’ll be booked for 150’s.
 
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They seem to have been building the new purpose built building at Newton Heath for what seems like years. Competent operators usually have maintenance facilities in place before trains are expected let alone delivered. Is there some problem?
Any one any details of this building? I seem to remember it was just to house the ex Old Oak Common (now closed) wheel lathe.
K

The wheel lathe is going into the main building. The extension work is new facilities for the new units.
 

geoffk

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When stopping at Mauldeth Road today on a 195 from Liverpool, an announcement was made to the effect that not all doors would be platformed, and please refer to the screens for advice on where to alight. 319s call at Mauldeth Road so I was puzzled by the announcement. The screens were out of order anyway. A 319 is 4x20m = 80m approx, a 3-car 195 is apparently 71.4m long.
 

Mathew S

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Incidentally, when passing the new works at Springs Branch, on what once the curve that led to the Springs Branch line, can anyone confirm if unit washing facilities are being erected there.
Yea, they are. A lot of very visible progress has been made there over the last month or two.
 

Bovverboy

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Could have done with a 195 on the 1035 Airport to Barrow yesterday morning (Sun). People were standing in the gangways on 156455 even leaving Piccadilly. I don't doubt that a fair proportion of those on board would have been heading for Blackpool, but at that time on a Sunday the Blackpool service starts from Oxford Road. Barmy, or what?

I was on that yesterday - it was awful. I don't know if you made it as far as Preston, but it took a good 3 or 4 minutes to unload everyone with their suitcases.

Luckily, I never intended catching it, I just happened to be at Picc when it departed.

Actually, anyone travelling from Piccadilly (or a previous stop) to Blackpool could have changed on to a virtually empty 319 at Oxford Road and finished up arriving in Blackpool on the same train they would have finished up on anyway - but the journey planners say change at Preston, and I think that's what instinct inevitably says, too. That's if they made the connection at Preston, of course - to change at Oxford Road would have been slightly easier, if anything.

From 15 September things get even more complicated. The 1133 (Sun) Airport to Windermere is amended to commence at Oxford Road, so anyone wanting to travel from Piccadilly to Blackpool (which I'm sure they'll still be wanting to do, by that date), who doesn't manage to get the 1054 Barrow, and who holds a Northern-only ticket, will then need to get themselves to Oxford Road on either the 1111 Liverpool semi-fast, 1121 Chat Moss stopper, or 1130 Oxford Road (ex-Stoke) - the next westbound Northern, the 1209 Liverpool semi-fast, does not make Oxford Road in time to connect with the 1202 Oxford Road to Blackpool North. Even with a non-Northern-specific ticket, the only other options would be travelling from Picc to Oxford Road by the 1125 TPE, the 1138 EMT, or the 1156 TfW, the latter involving an uncomfortably tight connection at Oxford Road (but worth a go, if you're stuck).
 
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KevinTurvey

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My first thoughts after a couple of journeys...

Internally, I think they have done a nice job, the saloon is light and airy, with the feeling of space, the seats are actually quite comfortable with good legroom, acceleration seems good, and all is shiny and new so a big improvement all round.

The only minus for me is the ride quality which I thought was a little disappointing and not as refined as a 158 (on the CLC route as a direct comparison) it just feels a bit too stiff and as if bogie parts are joggling about and rubbing against each other.

The 3 car units seem to be very overcrowded at peak times already, so hopefully those extra centre cars will be ordered soon....
 

ed1971

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Are there any immediate plans to introduce 195s on Leeds to Chester services? I caught the 18:39 Leeds to Chester service on Tuesday. It was formed of a Class 153 trio.
 

sprinterguy

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I had my first journey on one of these yesterday - far sooner than I expected - and for what I had considered a "cheap and cheerful" new train from photographs I was mightily impressed:

  • The ride quality, even at speed when sat over the bogie in the driving car was smooth and rock steady - reminiscent of the stable and solid ride quality of a class 350.
  • The engines are quiet and the sound unobtrusive in the passenger saloon, even in the middle of the vehicle - Being very similar in sound to a class 172, in my opinion.
  • The interiors are light and airy, again being akin to a Desiro in my view, and boarding and alighting at stations is rapid with the wide double doors.
  • There were no squeaks, rattles or vibrations apparent from any of the interior panels, in fact the interior seemed solidly built in general.
  • The seats are firm, but comfortably so: There seemed to be an ideal mix of table and airline seats. The seatback tables seemed sturdy and well secured when not in use.
  • The toilets are clean (As you'd hope after less than a fortnight in service!), brightly lit and fit for purpose - I wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't been mentioned on here before, but there does indeed seem to be a very powerful extraction fan fitted, so I doubt any odours will become problem. The door lock lever mechanism is reassuringly sturdy.
  • The wealth of information displayed on the passenger information screens was excellent, I particularly liked the scheduled and estimated arrival times for each station and the arrows pointing to which side the platform would be just prior to each stop.
  • The number and length of automated announcements seemed to be kept to a minimum.
  • Clean carpets instead of worn and stained lino were a nice touch, let's hope that the Northern cleaning regime can keep them that way!
All in all these trains are an incredible step up from what passengers have become accustomed to on Northern services; even the 156s I saw puttering about now seem quite dowdy and tatty by comparison, let alone the Pacers. It's just a shame that it wasn't possible to order enough new trains to replace the 150s at the same time!
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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Are there any immediate plans to introduce 195s on Leeds to Chester services? I caught the 18:39 Leeds to Chester service on Tuesday. It was formed of a Class 153 trio.

On another Leeds to the western side of the Northern franchise service, the Leeds to Southport train, what plans are there for unit allocation in the future. I ask this as on our return from Wigan Wallgate to Manchester Victoria, a 2 x 2 car Class 150 was provided and we boarded the front unit which had the worst Class 150 interior that I have ever travelled on.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Looking at 195105 & 195110 in Huddersfield sidings, there's very little indication from the exterior where the wheelchair space is, just a small sticker on the lower part of the door. I noticed this on the 331s too and I'm surprised there isn't a more obvious indication particularly at eye-level. On crowded platforms it isn't going to be easy to identify which door to use.
 

507 001

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My first impressions...

Good turn of speed.
Nice internal layout.
First set we were on had decent aircon set at a nice comfortable temperature, although it was very warm in one coach of the second set.
Internal layout seems decent.
Ironing board seats aren’t as bad as I expected.
Everything seems to be quite solidly screwed together, although I did notice a couple of trim issues with the carpets.
They’re very quiet internally.
They are quite hard riding. It’s not rough, but you do feel every imperfection in the track. Point work is quite jarring, even at low speeds (you can actually feel each wheel set hitting the crossing piece). I’d describe it as lumpy.
The suspension is quite noisy too.
The brakes are very squeaky.

Overall, I’m quite happy with them and think they’ll be generally well received. I suspect the few ‘cons’ I noticed could be relatively easily rectified with software mods etc.
 

Mogster

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Just had my first ride. Oxford Road to Wigan North West.

First impressions these are exactly what Northern need. Modern feeling to the cabin, AC working even though the service was full and standing. Seats are firm but not uncomfortable. As a regular commuter I love the walkthrough linked carriages, really easy to spot empty seats, punters were moving down the gangways like I’ve never seen before. Wide doors made for easy loading. These units seem to have a serious turn of speed, I can’t remember seeing the rammed Oxford Road platform disappearing so quickly... Ride was firm but acceptable even over the bumpy sections of Chat Moss.

The negatives. Legroom could be better, I am 6ft though, I would have liked another 2 inches of knee Room. There was a weird clunking noise from the connecting corridor. Not sure if it was from the PA or mechanical. If I’d been on the thing for more than 30 minutes it would have been annoying. A 350 feels more upmarket and is an all round better unit, it’s a long distance unit though. Service was 25 minutes late, the guard blamed software problems with almost uncontrolled glee over the PA...

Desperately hope these units will replace the 142s and 150s, it’s probably too much to ask though... More coaches are needed also. People will want to ride on these units once they realise a revolution is happening.
 

fowler9

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Just had my first ride. Oxford Road to Wigan North West.

First impressions these are exactly what Northern need. Modern feeling to the cabin, AC working even though the service was full and standing. Seats are firm but not uncomfortable. As a regular commuter I love the walkthrough linked carriages, really easy to spot empty seats, punters were moving down the gangways like I’ve never seen before. Wide doors made for easy loading. These units seem to have a serious turn of speed, I can’t remember seeing the rammed Oxford Road platform disappearing so quickly... Ride was firm but acceptable even over the bumpy sections of Chat Moss.

The negatives. Legroom could be better, I am 6ft though, I would have liked another 2 inches of knee Room. There was a weird clunking noise from the connecting corridor. Not sure if it was from the PA or mechanical. If I’d been on the thing for more than 30 minutes it would have been annoying. A 350 feels more upmarket and is an all round better unit, it’s a long distance unit though. Service was 25 minutes late, the guard blamed software problems with almost uncontrolled glee over the PA...

Desperately hope these units will replace the 142s and 150s, it’s probably too much to ask though... More coaches are needed also. People will want to ride on these units once they realise a revolution is happening.
Be amazed if they replace the 142's. The two car units are too short for anything. Generally nice apart from the hard seats and ride and the invisible bins.
 

507 001

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My first impressions...

Good turn of speed.
Nice internal layout.
First set we were on had decent aircon set at a nice comfortable temperature, although it was very warm in one coach of the second set.
Internal layout seems decent.
Ironing board seats aren’t as bad as I expected.
Everything seems to be quite solidly screwed together, although I did notice a couple of trim issues with the carpets.
They’re very quiet internally.
They are quite hard riding. It’s not rough, but you do feel every imperfection in the track. Point work is quite jarring, even at low speeds (you can actually feel each wheel set hitting the crossing piece). I’d describe it as lumpy.
The suspension is quite noisy too.
The brakes are very squeaky.

Overall, I’m quite happy with them and think they’ll be generally well received. I suspect the few ‘cons’ I noticed could be relatively easily rectified with software mods etc.

I should add to my earlier post that neither of the two units we were on had a 100% functional PIS.

The first had the correct destination blind and audio announcements but was showing ‘Not in Service’ on the internal screens.
The second was fully functioning apart from the fact that it couldn’t decide whether the service had been cancelled or delayed due to a train fault. It was 15 minutes late leaving Lime Street but only 2 down leaving Piccadilly. Impressive performance!
 

Geeves

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On another Leeds to the western side of the Northern franchise service, the Leeds to Southport train, what plans are there for unit allocation in the future. I ask this as on our return from Wigan Wallgate to Manchester Victoria, a 2 x 2 car Class 150 was provided and we boarded the front unit which had the worst Class 150 interior that I have ever travelled on.

The Leeds - Southport becomes Leeds - Wigan NW in the next timetable change so its unlikely Southport will be seeing any 195s at all. Leeds to Chester should start going over to 195s around October subject to all the usual.
 

Techdave

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Looking at 195105 & 195110 in Huddersfield sidings, there's very little indication from the exterior where the wheelchair space is, just a small sticker on the lower part of the door. I noticed this on the 331s too and I'm surprised there isn't a more obvious indication particularly at eye-level. On crowded platforms it isn't going to be easy to identify which door to use.
Stabled at Huddersfield overnight ...7am Fri morning still there. My first close up view.
 

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M60lad

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31 May 2011
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Out of interest why has one of the 195s stabled at Newton Heath got red/white tape around one of the cab doors? Keep seeing the same unit whenever I'm on my way to work in the afternoon.

Is there something wrong with this particular one meaning it can't be used?
 

AMD

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Out of interest why has one of the 195s stabled at Newton Heath got red/white tape around one of the cab doors? Keep seeing the same unit whenever I'm on my way to work in the afternoon.

The door has probably come off it's hinges.
 

Jozhua

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Saw a 195 at Oxford Road earlier.

Looked really nice, took off quickly. Seems a about as noisy externally as a 156/158, so fairly loud. Also none of the engines seemed to have coverings, could this leave things vulnerable to the elements or does it not make a difference?
 
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