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Uniforms - formal vs. informal?

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56 1/2

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So an image of some Northern crews modelling the uniform I found (though not showing the polo shirt or softshell):

6882703.jpg


Ill-fitting and poor colour choices for the lot of them. The one on the right is particularly bad - the jumper looks like it is an Asda Value product, and the one in the middle looks like a Girl Guide (who themselves have a ridiculous uniform which looks like they work for Domino's Pizza or a cleaning firm). The second one from the left looks like a generic insurance office worker.

Is far left a prison officer in her spare time?
 
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I realise that they are not trains, but I do seem to recall Eddie Stobart getting huge brand recognition and a high bump in "perceived quality" specifically as a result of their drivers wearing a shirt and tie - it was a few years ago now
That was the day my company dropped Stobart quote from MD "Who is paying for the fancy paint jobs and uniforms, I am blo...y not!"
 

bengley

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So an image of some Northern crews modelling the uniform I found (though not showing the polo shirt or softshell):

6882703.jpg


Ill-fitting and poor colour choices for the lot of them. The one on the right is particularly bad - the jumper looks like it is an Asda Value product, and the one in the middle looks like a Girl Guide (who themselves have a ridiculous uniform which looks like they work for Domino's Pizza or a cleaning firm). The second one from the left looks like a generic insurance office worker.

The one on the right is wearing a polo shirt...

The new Northern uniform is quite frankly appalling though. It's not really excusable that the option for a tie isn't available with the shirts.

Polo shirts should be for drivers only, like they are with most companies. At TPE we now have polos for drivers, whereas everyone else has to wear a shirt and tie (and it looks pretty smart)
 

Stigy

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The one on the right is wearing a polo shirt...

The new Northern uniform is quite frankly appalling though. It's not really excusable that the option for a tie isn't available with the shirts.

Polo shirts should be for drivers only, like they are with most companies. At TPE we now have polos for drivers, whereas everyone else has to wear a shirt and tie (and it looks pretty smart)
They look a lot like SWR’s.....and there’s isn’t great either.
 

LOL The Irony

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I realise that they are not trains, but I do seem to recall Eddie Stobart getting huge brand recognition and a high bump in "perceived quality" specifically as a result of their drivers wearing a shirt and tie - it was a few years ago now
It was quite a while ago, so long ago, they ditched the tie about 10 years ago
 

Mojo

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Regarding drivers, why do we need uniforms in this country?
Drivers need nothing but ID. Same as Signalmen. Actual customer dealing staff, i agree, some sort of uniform, but relaxed.
As someone who has previously worked in a control based job, being able to identify the driver on CCTV has been able to help with things like giving updates or estimates on what is going on especially where there has been an incident and the driver is going back to assist or reset an alarm. I can also think of times where station staff might need to interact with a driver such as during an incident where the driver has gone back to assist or where a train is being detrained, and if they were in their own clothes this could possibly cause embarrassment and delay if station staff couldn’t identify them easily.

This morning, I was travelling with a wheelchair user and the train was unexpectedly turned short, at a wheelchair inaccessible station. The driver came back to reassure us and offer assistance for the onward journey. I’m not quite sure this conversation would have been so easy if he wasn’t in uniform.
 

bengley

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They look a lot like SWR’s.....and there’s isn’t great either.
Indeed, but you really ought to not worry about what your driver looks like, as long as he/she gets the train to its destination safely and on time. It's none of yours, or anybody's business really.

Customer facing staff such as guards or station staff should be smart, sure, but I can tell you now that light coloured shirts in a train cab environment don't stay the colour they're meant to for long around the cuffs. It's also great not having to stand up and tuck my shirt in all the time when it inevitably comes untucked.
 

jkkne

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My train was late, it was overcrowded, the toilet was out of order and my ticket was incredibly expensive..but at least my conductor had a nice shirt and tie on. That made everything better.

Occasionally this forum does require to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century...or at least into the world of actual passengers and not enthusiasts....
 

route:oxford

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It's 8 years since I last wore a tie to work. That was a 9 month contract with an Irish company that demanded staff in the UK head office wear a tie. If only they'd paid as much attention to their actual business model - they wouldn't have been in quite such a mess.

As to shorts.

My Postman has worn shorts all year round for at least the last 10 years. It hasn't caused any issues with delivery. My GP was wearing shorts and a polo when I saw him a fortnight ago, didn't make any difference to me.
 

jamesst

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My train was late, it was overcrowded, the toilet was out of order and my ticket was incredibly expensive..but at least my conductor had a nice shirt and tie on. That made everything better.

Occasionally this forum does require to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century...or at least into the world of actual passengers and not enthusiasts....

Fully agree
 

Tom B

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There were reccomendations in the Fennel Report in relation to staff being identifiable, and of the station supervisors wearing different coloured shirts etc. That makes sense.

There's no reason why a branded polo shirt can't look ok and be functional.
 

Ken H

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I realise that they are not trains, but I do seem to recall Eddie Stobart getting huge brand recognition and a high bump in "perceived quality" specifically as a result of their drivers wearing a shirt and tie - it was a few years ago now
They still do

I have found the industry has a bearing on work wear rules

Financials seem to be the most rigid. Trousers (not jeans) shoes (not trainers) shirt and tie. last contract I had in finance was in 2015. butt hey did do friday casual, but it cost £1 for charity. Insurance the same. Even telesales staff.

rag trade just done care. come in what you want. always has been.

current - well i work at home so wear what I want. But in the office its shoes, trousers and shirt. no tie. office supplies.

haven't done customer facing for a long long time. back office IT stuff.
 

superkev

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Uniforms can be smart even without resorting to shirt tie etc. Northerns attire reminds me of Pizza delivery drivers. All they need is Bernie hats to complete the down market image. I suspect the people who have to wear dont like it either.
K
 

Clip

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My train was late, it was overcrowded, the toilet was out of order and my ticket was incredibly expensive..but at least my conductor had a nice shirt and tie on. That made everything better.

Occasionally this forum does require to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century...or at least into the world of actual passengers and not enthusiasts....

Spot on
 

pt_mad

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I don't really like polo shirts, but I'm all for getting rid of ties.

The old Virgin uniform with jumpers seemed to be a good strike between casual but professional looking.
Pretty much agree with this. Wore a polo once on a non uniform charity themed day and felt under dressed and self conscious the whole day. Probably because I wasn't use to it though.

I do think ties should be dropped. As others have said, many in the business community don't wear them now. They are not needed even to be company directors. So why the need? A shirt with the button open, trousers and nice jumper should be perfectly smart enough.
Comfort needs to be considered too. Fair enough clip on ties prevent people being grabbed by a tie but you need your top button done up whilst a ladies scarf doesn't require that. Many opt for a wrap around tie just so the top button can be undone. Then in the summer it's do you don't you? Some places would rather you wear them on all but the most humid of days, others where they aren't worn at all in June July or August. And if everyone else keeps wearing them there's more pressure not to take yours off even if you're uncomfortable.

There's also the weekend when a tie is generally far too overdressed for the weekend leisure customer who will probably be in a t shirt or open shirt and jeans. So I don't think they'd judge no suit as being inadequate whilst dressing casual themselves.

Definitely better just to remove them from the outfit imo, and save on a little bit of money too.
 

66701GBRF

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Once upon a time GBRF expected all traincrew to wear shirts and ties, even the shunters. Thankfully over the last few years that ridiculous notion has waned and now the shunters either wear a blue polo or high viz polo/long sleeve. Drivers are still expected to ware shirts and ties though. Uniform should be smart yes, but they also need to be comfortable and fit the specifics of the job.
 

MotCO

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A couple of observations. I am office based and have always worn a tie by choice; some of my colleagues don't, but keep a tie in the office for those 'special occasions'. I think that it is an age thing; over 55's will wear a tie, under 55's don't.

I was also unfortunatly in A&E recently. I could not tell who were the doctors and who were the nurses - no two people seemed to wear the same 'uniform'. Surely this should be clear?
 

Clip

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I was also unfortunatly in A&E recently. I could not tell who were the doctors and who were the nurses - no two people seemed to wear the same 'uniform'. Surely this should be clear?

Do you need to be able to tell the difference between them both though? As long as they are doing their job correctly then thats all that matters isnt it?
 

PeterC

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My view is that:
1. Customer facing and safety critical staff need to be identifiable
2. The public still generally expect formality of dress to increase with seniority.
 

Facing Back

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Do you need to be able to tell the difference between them both though? As long as they are doing their job correctly then thats all that matters isnt it?
I think I would prefer to be able to tell the difference but I'm not sure I fully know why. Perhaps simply something to do with liking to know who I'm talking to.
 

MotCO

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I think I would prefer to be able to tell the difference but I'm not sure I fully know why. Perhaps simply something to do with liking to know who I'm talking to.
I do since I would rather ask a nurse for trivial assistance, e.g .for a glass of water, rather than ask a doctor.
 

ComUtoR

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I do since I would rather ask a nurse for trivial assistance, e.g .for a glass of water, rather than ask a doctor.

Are nurses somehow more suited to menial tasks than a Doctor ? If you need a glass of water, just ask someone. I have spent many many hours in hospital Nurses are often very busy and very much over worked. There are also many levels of 'Nurse' If we are making judgements on the basis of someones title or how they dress, we need to look more about ourselves than others.
 

pt_mad

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I think I would prefer to be able to tell the difference but I'm not sure I fully know why. Perhaps simply something to do with liking to know who I'm talking to.
A badge would tell you the job title of a TOC worker surely?
 

MotCO

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Are nurses somehow more suited to menial tasks than a Doctor ? If you need a glass of water, just ask someone. I have spent many many hours in hospital Nurses are often very busy and very much over worked. There are also many levels of 'Nurse' If we are making judgements on the basis of someones title or how they dress, we need to look more about ourselves than others.

I accept that both doctors and nurses are busy, but they are busy in different ways. In A&E, doctors have to write up reports on patients and I would expect would rather not be disturbed. Nurses have more varied duties which could accommodate the 'menial tasks'.
 

DarloRich

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I accept that both doctors and nurses are busy, but they are busy in different ways. In A&E, doctors have to write up reports on patients and I would expect would rather not be disturbed. Nurses have more varied duties which could accommodate the 'menial tasks'.

Nurses don't write reports eh? Also nurses don't perform "menial tasks". They perform a complex and important role in delivering health care. You might not have moved on from 1957. The profession of nursing has. You honestly have no idea.

Oh while we are on: they can all wear a different coloured outfit ( and the drs can wear Bermuda shorts and a vest) for all I care as long as they make me better. ( insert confused headshake icon thing here)
 

MotCO

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Nurses don't write reports eh? Also nurses don't perform "menial tasks". They perform a complex and important role in delivering health care. You might not have moved on from 1957. The profession of nursing has. You honestly have no idea.

Oh while we are on: they can all wear a different coloured outfit ( and the drs can wear Bermuda shorts and a vest) for all I care as long as they make me better. ( insert confused headshake icon thing here)
I'm not denigrating the work of nurses, but they do perform different roles from doctors. I always understood that doctors and nurses wore uniforms to aid control of infection, and I'm not sure why that has changed. Anyway, I think we are going way off topic!
 

DarloRich

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I'm not denigrating the work of nurses, but they do perform different roles from doctors. I always understood that doctors and nurses wore uniforms to aid control of infection, and I'm not sure why that has changed. Anyway, I think we are going way off topic!

Yes you are. Your views on nursing are embarrassingly aged.
 

Clip

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I do since I would rather ask a nurse for trivial assistance, e.g .for a glass of water, rather than ask a doctor.


Id ask anyone if i was in a bed in hospital. I see your overall point but without going further off topic they may perform different functions but the work they do is just as important
 
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