Missing your train due to incorrect info on departure screen

beeza1 · 8 Jul 2017

Hypothetical question,
If you miss your train due to incorrect info on the departure boards would you be eligible for "delay repay" or onward travel if it was the last train of the day?
I ask this because on Wednesday the departure boards at Huddersfield were showing the 18:18 service to Sheffield as expected at 18:45, when in fact it was already on the platform and did indeed depart at 18:18.
It was only pure chance I decided to wait on the platform and not go for a beer.

RailUK Forums

najaB · 8 Jul 2017

beeza1 said:
Hypothetical question,
If you miss your train due to incorrect info on the departure boards would you be eligible for "delay repay" or onward travel if it was the last train of the day?

That's an interesting one. Morally I think you would be, but the TOC could make the argument that you should have waited at the station because the display only shows 'estimated' departure times.

MotCO · 8 Jul 2017

najaB said:
you should have waited at the station because the display only shows 'estimated' departure times.

But if you are waiting on an overbridge (e.g Reading) waiting for your train to be called, you would not know that the train is actually at the platform. Trying to prove this for delay repay would be difficult. Likewise, if your ticket was for the specific train, would it be your fault if you missed it, and would you be able to catch a later train?

najaB · 8 Jul 2017

MotCO said:
But if you are waiting on an overbridge (e.g Reading) waiting for your train to be called, you would not know that the train is actually at the platform.

Again, I agree with you but a TOC could counter with "Why didn't you speak with station staff?"

MikeWh · 8 Jul 2017

najaB said:
Again, I agree with you but a TOC could counter with "Why didn't you speak with station staff?"

Should all passengers query any PIS informed delay with staff? "Are you sure the xx.xx is really 20 minutes late?" Surely that is what 'PIS's are for?

Quakkerillo · 8 Jul 2017

Imagine if everybody was to find confirmation by station staff during severe delays at - say - Glasgow Queen Street about every single train that may or may not be delayed. That would quickly descend into chaos for the customer-facing staff who wouldn't be any more knowledgeable than you, as they'll often also depend on the PIS screens .

najaB · 8 Jul 2017

MikeWh said:
Should all passengers query any PIS informed delay with staff? "Are you sure the xx.xx is really 20 minutes late?" Surely that is what 'PIS's are for?

I agree that they should be accurate, but every one I've seen says 'Expected' time which doesn't leave you much of a leg to stand on if departs earlier.

In the hypothetical case presented - a severe delay to the last train of the day - it would be wise to make yourself known to station staff at the very least.

Quakkerillo said:
Imagine if everybody was to find confirmation by station staff during severe delays at - say - Glasgow Queen Street about every single train that may or may not be delayed.

I agree, and don't advise that anyone does so. All I'm saying is that a passenger who choses to leave the platform area on the basis of an 'Expected' time on a PIS doesn't have much of a case if the train actually leaves before that time.

I would like to think that a TOC would give them the benefit of the doubt, but there wouldn't be much recourse if they didn't.

richw · 8 Jul 2017

I've noticed journey check doesn't update as trains make up time.
Last year after the Paddington derailment I was heading to catch the down night riviera. Journey check showing several hours late. It left Paddington about that late. I out of chance checked RTT and it was only when I noticed it was at Newton abbot I realised it's only 20-30 late. Journey check hadn't updated the delay as it progressed. It has a hst sub so it made great time.

Ed92uk · 8 Jul 2017

Happened to me last year with the final Virgin train of the evening out of Liverpool. The board said delayed for another 20 minutes or so and then left. The staff were not interested I had to buy a non toc ticket to use on London Midland. The reply to my complaint was that trains sometimes leave early.

johnr57 · 8 Jul 2017

what about when there is no disruption. i regularly get the 1Y03 0600 YRK KGX and i notice it frequently leaves NTR early, yesterday for example,

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60073/2017/07/07/advanced

i would be pretty annoyed seeing it leave NTR as i was parking!

(ive never known it leave york early though)

just checked a few other days - its seems to be early every day? so whats that about?

roversfan2001 · 8 Jul 2017

johnr57 said:
what about when there is no disruption. i regularly get the 1Y03 0600 YRK KGX and i notice it frequently leaves NTR early, yesterday for example,

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60073/2017/07/07/advanced

i would be pretty annoyed seeing it leave NTR as i was parking!

(ive never known it leave york early though)

just checked a few other days - its seems to be early every day? so whats that about?

It's early based on the working timetable. On the public timetable it actually departed 90 seconds late.

johnr57 · 8 Jul 2017

roversfan2001 said:
It's early based on the working timetable. On the public timetable it actually departed 90 seconds late.

ah thank you, i understand now

island · 8 Jul 2017

I had this happen just yesterday at Charing Cross with a train scheduled for 18:04 and marked expected 18:14 pulled out at 18:10.

I shrugged my shoulders and got on the next train.

Bayum · 8 Jul 2017

island said:
I had this happen just yesterday at Charing Cross with a train scheduled for 18:04 and marked expected 18:14 pulled out at 18:10.

I shrugged my shoulders and got on the next train.

All well and good when you're not travelling on an advance ticket.

dcsprior · 8 Jul 2017

I think there's a couple of different scenarios here:
1 - it's shown as "expected xx:xx" but later changes to being less delayed (or on time) with sufficient notice for passengers to get to the platform and board *
2 - it's shown as "expected xx:xx" and departs without this changing, or it does change but not with enough notice for passengers to make it.

In the case of #2, I'd stick in a delay-repay claim if I was affected, with a clear explanation of what happened, and would not drop it if it was at first refused. In the case of #1, I'd say that the passenger should've kept an eye on the boards, as it was only an estimate.

* "sufficient" is of course subjective - perhaps whatever the minimum connection time for the station is would be a sensible place to draw the line.

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221129 · 9 Jul 2017

dcsprior said:
I think there's a couple of different scenarios here:
1 - it's shown as "expected xx:xx" but later changes to being less delayed (or on time) with sufficient notice for passengers to get to the platform and board *
2 - it's shown as "expected xx:xx" and departs without this changing, or it does change but not with enough notice for passengers to make it.

In the case of #2, I'd stick in a delay-repay claim if I was affected, with a clear explanation of what happened, and would not drop it if it was at first refused. In the case of #1, I'd say that the passenger should've kept an eye on the boards, as it was only an estimate.

* "sufficient" is of course subjective - perhaps whatever the minimum connection time for the station is would be a sensible place to draw the line.

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If it was a platform alteration I would agree, but the passengers should be waiting on the platform for it.

dcsprior · 9 Jul 2017

221129 said:
If it was a platform alteration I would agree, but the passengers should be waiting on the platform for it.

Hmm, I'd been thinking more in terms of the platform not yet being up on the board yet.

But even if it is, I think it's reasonable for passengers to assume there'll be some notice when the delay becomes a lot less than expected. If the board says the train is expected in 10 mins time, and I nipped to the loo (which could be on the platform) and came out 2 mins later to see my train pulling away, I'd feel a tad aggrieved.

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cav1975 · 9 Jul 2017

A colleague of mine managed to get delay repay from Southeastern. He had been waiting on the platform indicated at Denmark Hill but the train came into another platform unnaounced. He was unable to get across in time. SE declined at the first request but relented.

takno · 9 Jul 2017

221129 said:
If it was a platform alteration I would agree, but the passengers should be waiting on the platform for it.

That might work on some stations, but if there aren't any benches or waiting facilities, or quite often roof on the platform, why would I wait there instead of the waiting room or bar when I'm expecting to be delayed by half an hour?

rs101 · 9 Jul 2017

najaB said:
Again, I agree with you but a TOC could counter with "Why didn't you speak with station staff?"

To which the response would be "what staff" at many stations. Manningtree has one or two staff on duty at a time who have to both man the ticket office and deal with train departures.

najaB · 9 Jul 2017

rs101 said:
To which the response would be "what staff" at many stations.

Which would be a reasonable answer.

johntea · 10 Jul 2017

I had a case of this a good few years ago when a Transpenine at Piccadilly to Leeds suddenly changed from Platform 13 to Platform 2 or something like that anyway and was gone before anybody had change to get across to the new platform! (It is obviously a bit of a trek!)

Either transport was arranged for me at Leeds or I just caught my own taxi and sent a letter off to Transpenine who basically blamed Northern for buggering the communications up and refunded me :lol:

najaB · 10 Jul 2017

johntea said:
I had a case of this a good few years ago when a Transpenine at Piccadilly to Leeds suddenly changed from Platform 13 to Platform 2 or something like that anyway and was gone before anybody had change to get across to the new platform! (It is obviously a bit of a trek!)

I think the case for a refund is clear in that sort of scenario. It's less clear in the scenario presented in the OP - where the passenger wasn't in the platform area (or even in the station!).

Joe Paxton · 11 Jul 2017

cav1975 said:
A colleague of mine managed to get delay repay from Southeastern. He had been waiting on the platform indicated at Denmark Hill but the train came into another platform unannounced. He was unable to get across in time. SE declined at the first request but relented.

Funny, I was reading earlier posts in this thread and the thought of last minute platform alterations at Denmark Hill came to mind. I haven't witnessed any that were unannounced, but I have seen some that were literally last minute, with ensuing mad dash up and over the bridge. In fact a few times I've stood blocking the train doors from closing in order to hold up departure for those a bit slower to get onboard, to the obvious exasperation of the driver.

sheff1 · 11 Jul 2017

221129 said:
If it was a platform alteration I would agree, but the passengers should be waiting on the platform for it.

At Manchester Piccadilly the PIS advises passengers to "wait in the lounge".

At Aberdeen the staff refuse to let you wait on the platform.

IanXC · 11 Jul 2017

sheff1 said:
At Manchester Piccadilly the PIS advises passengers to "wait in the lounge".

At Aberdeen the staff refuse to let you wait on the platform.

At Inverness they advertise a platform, and then remove anyone waiting on said platform back to the concourse... Where of course their tickets then reject with passback when they eventually are permitted onto the platform.

sheff1 · 11 Jul 2017

IanXC said:
At Inverness they advertise a platform, and then remove anyone waiting on said platform back to the concourse... Where of course their tickets then reject with passback when they eventually are permitted onto the platform.

That is the Aberdeen modus operandi too. Must be a Scottish thing.

johntea · 13 Jul 2019

Sorry to bump this rather old thread but I had this situation last night at Leeds

23:16 to Knottingley was shown on the departure boards at Leeds as expected 23:38, but I checked several 'real time' sources on my phone and they were all reporting it as 'on time'. Decided not to risk it and got to the platform for the scheduled departure time and the train was stood there but took 5 minutes for it to depart, so rather than the departure board 20 minute delay it was actually a 5 minute delay

Considering it was the last train of the evening I would have been pretty frustrated as a passenger had I believed the departure boards and took my time getting to the platform as a result!

takno · 13 Jul 2019

johntea said:
Sorry to bump this rather old thread but I had this situation last night at Leeds

23:16 to Knottingley was shown on the departure boards at Leeds as expected 23:38, but I checked several 'real time' sources on my phone and they were all reporting it as 'on time'. Decided not to risk it and got to the platform for the scheduled departure time and the train was stood there but took 5 minutes for it to depart, so rather than the departure board 20 minute delay it was actually a 5 minute delay

Considering it was the last train of the evening I would have been pretty frustrated as a passenger had I believed the departure boards and took my time getting to the platform as a result!

I would guess that the incoming train which was supposed to form the service was delayed. Darwin sometimes seems to quite sensibly realise this will cause a knock-on delay and report as such. Unfortunately it's sometimes possible to just send another unit out instead. Most of the time Darwin (and therefore the screens) will just report "delayed" in these circumstances, which is probably safer but is always a bit annoying

kristiang85 · 14 Jul 2019

This happened with me with SWR; there was one of the usual evenings of chaos at Waterloo and my train was cancelled. Another train left soon after but it was not on the screens (I only noticed when I happened to see it pulling away from a platform, and RTT confirmed it). I didn't get another train for half an hour, so put in a delay repay claim for my original one. It was rejected due to the existance of the second train, but I got my money back on appeal due to the lack of info on the screens (and I think I sent them a twitter screenshot of someone else who had the same problem).

So, yes, it seems you can get DR for incorrect information.

Missing your train due to incorrect info on departure screen

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