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LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

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ainsworth74

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Please, please, can people come to grips with the idea that a great number of the 91s are going to be scrapped in the near future. This constant attempt to find other uses for them begins to look increasingly ridiculous. They are thoroughbred greyhounds designed to fly along at 140mph on express passenger services. They have been utterly hammered in their working life clocking up hundreds of thousands of miles every year for nearly thirty years.

The only work they remain potentially suited to is long distance high speed passenger work. Of such work that is available there is a vanishingly small demand for thirty year old locomotives. Indeed just about the only game in town is Grand Central to Blackpool (which may end up using 90s anway) and Alliance's new scheme between Paddington and Cardiff (which is highly unlikely to ever get off the ground). They aren't suited to freight services and they aren't suited to all-stop passenger services.

As hard is it is for some to accept their time has come. They've been excellent servants on the ECML for several decades but it's time for the majority of them to go for scrap.
 
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ash39

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I always had the idea of semi-permanently coupling two class 91s together and using them on freight operations. With about 13,000hp, it should be enough for freight operations, and they were initially designed for freight operations at night. But as somebody said further up the thread, the aren't geared for that kind of stuff

So you acknowledge that they aren't geared for moving heavy loads, can you explain how coupling two together to give 13,000hp will get around that?

Power is largely irrelevant for freight. It's tractive effort you need, and preferably co-co configuration. Basically, a Class 92. And how many of those are languishing decommissioned at various locations?
 

43096

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A one way journey through the Channel Tunnel, just like the surplus 37s, 58s, 66s, 87s and 92s (and not forgetting the 77s, pre-tunnel)...
For what purpose? They’re no use as freight locos and the demand for 25kV 125mph locos in Europe is minimal - anyone looking for such locos will either buy new Vectrons from Siemens or lease Tauri or Vectrons from the likes of MRCE or Railpool.

It’s the same ill thought through idea as the suggestion of exporting HSTs.
 

Roast Veg

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And don't even begin to suggest rebuilding them to work with MK5 stock...
 

Rhydgaled

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Don't you think apart from the one going to the museum we should have one preserved in working order .steam lost its watering and coaling facilities ,Electric is here to stay.
if I recall correctly multiple 91s are designated for the National Collection
91031 is listed as an item of railway heritage. That's not quite the same as being designated for the National Collection, but does mean the loco is designated for preservation in some form. 91111 is similarly listed, but with slightly ambiguous wording meaning it might just be the nameplates and artwork that get preserved.

In my opinion, 91110 should be added to the list, including it's livery, and be the one that ends up in the NRM (as a speed record holder 91110 would be quite fitting next to Mallard). 91031 I'd like to see preserved and restored to Swallow livery (with the extra grill that mucks it up on 91119 moved or removed if possible) and share railtour duties with the class 89.

There was talk back when Virgin Trains East Coast existed of keeping a small number of 91s for Kings Cross - Edinburgh services though nothing new has been heard of that proposal since before LNER took over from VTEC so it's probably safe to assume that proposal won't be happening.
I think that Kings Cross - Edinburgh service has been superseded by First's open access operation on the same route.
My recollection (possibly incorrect) is that the ORR approved both applications, but from a later date than VTEC had planned. Thus the service might still happen, but there's time for LNER to explore other rolling stock options so it may or may not end up being IC225 worked. I hope Eversholt will hold onto the 91s for now until either all the mark 4s have found other uses or both LNER and Grand Central start their new services with other traction. I still hope that both GC to Blackpool and LNER to Scotland will happen with 91s. If it doesn't then I expect most of the 91s will go for scrap, but please let's have 91110 for the NRM and 91031 preserved for railtours.
 

yorkie

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aljon

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91031 is listed as an item of railway heritage. That's not quite the same as being designated for the National Collection, but does mean the loco is designated for preservation in some form. 91111 is similarly listed, but with slightly ambiguous wording meaning it might just be the nameplates and artwork that get preserved.

In my opinion, 91110 should be added to the list, including it's livery, and be the one that ends up in the NRM (as a speed record holder 91110 would be quite fitting next to Mallard). 91031 I'd like to see preserved and restored to Swallow livery (with the extra grill that mucks it up on 91119 moved or removed if possible) and share railtour duties with the class 89.

My recollection (possibly incorrect) is that the ORR approved both applications, but from a later date than VTEC had planned. Thus the service might still happen, but there's time for LNER to explore other rolling stock options so it may or may not end up being IC225 worked. I hope Eversholt will hold onto the 91s for now until either all the mark 4s have found other uses or both LNER and Grand Central start their new services with other traction. I still hope that both GC to Blackpool and LNER to Scotland will happen with 91s. If it doesn't then I expect most of the 91s will go for scrap, but please let's have 91110 for the NRM and 91031 preserved for railtours.
Well at least that sounds sensible.
 

hexagon789

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When is the first 91 likely to be withdrawn, I've seen a few references to suggesting '108 may go soon but nothing seems concrete.
 

nat67

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When is the first 91 likely to be withdrawn, I've seen a few references to suggesting '108 may go soon but nothing seems concrete.
Talking of 91108 wasn't 91103 supposed to have disappeared by now? It was certainly out and about yesterday 12/7.
 

hexagon789

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I think I've seen it a few days after it was reintroduced, as when I saw it it had lost its LGBT logo-thing

Quite likely, I think it came back into service shortly before the 10th June as that's when I visited York and it had re-entered service by then.

I’d expect 108 to be the first to go as things stand...

Seems to be the general consensus.
 

Dave91131

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BN29 consisting of 82231-11429-11329-11998-10317-12321-12438-12457-12462-12204 was taken to Worksop yesterday by 66735, departed Bounds Green mid morning, seen whilst having a trundle about on 313's.

One set, which I think is BN05, remains dumped over the far back of Ferme Park.

91108, despite seeming imminently doomed based on numerous posts, put in a solid day's work yesterday doing 0605 LDS-KGX, 0857 KGX-EDB, 1430 EDB-KGX and 1927 KGX-NCL.. Only about 1240 miles..

91103 also seemed in fine fettle on Friday evening, working 2035 KGX-LDS.

The other 2 supposed early casualties, 91120 and 91132, have also seen action in the last 48 hours - 132 working 2045 LDS-KGX on Friday and spending yesterday on Bounds Green ans 120 working 1714 LDS-KGX and 1957 KGX-NCL yesterday evening.
 

hexagon789

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BN29 consisting of 82231-11429-11329-11998-10317-12321-12438-12457-12462-12204 was taken to Worksop yesterday by 66735, departed Bounds Green mid morning, seen whilst having a trundle about on 313's.

One set, which I think is BN05, remains dumped over the far back of Ferme Park.

91108, despite seeming imminently doomed based on numerous posts, put in a solid day's work yesterday doing 0605 LDS-KGX, 0857 KGX-EDB, 1430 EDB-KGX and 1927 KGX-NCL.. Only about 1240 miles..

91103 also seemed in fine fettle on Friday evening, working 2035 KGX-LDS.

The other 2 supposed early casualties, 91120 and 91132, have also seen action in the last 48 hours - 132 working 2045 LDS-KGX on Friday and spending yesterday on Bounds Green ans 120 working 1714 LDS-KGX and 1957 KGX-NCL yesterday evening.

It's great to see they are still getting some mileage in, I think it's anyone's guess which is first to go now.
 

EE Andy b1

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So when are the first of 3 Mk4 sets going to Transport for Wales?
Surely they need these sets up and running by the end of the year and before other new traction arrives.
 

hexagon789

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So when are the first of 3 Mk4 sets going to Transport for Wales?
Surely they need these sets up and running by the end of the year and before other new traction arrives.

The planned entry is December, seeing as a few sets have gone off-lease now are some of these perhaps destined for TfW?
 

EE Andy b1

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The planned entry is December, seeing as a few sets have gone off-lease now are some of these perhaps destined for TfW?

Let's hope so soon then because staff need training on the MK4s. one thing though only minimal exterior paint will be required.
 

HamworthyGoods

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91108 is to be stopped next week and will be handed back by LNER to Eversholt. Eversholt then plan to use it for spares for the rest of the fleet (to try and aid the current availability issues) and then once cannibalised offered for disposal.
 

hexagon789

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91108 is to be stopped next week and will be handed back by LNER to Eversholt. Eversholt then plan to use it for spares for the rest of the fleet (to try and aid the current availability issues) and then once cannibalised offered for disposal.

I think we all knew it was coming; presumably disposal = scrapping or could someone theoretically buy the shell?
 
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