Islineclear3_1
Established Member
A responsibility to make the crossing as safe as reasonably possible
A car can (usually) stop quicker than a train...
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Near miss at half-barrier crossing
- Thread starter JBuchananGB
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A responsibility to make the crossing as safe as reasonably possible
A car can (usually) stop quicker than a train...
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Foggycorner
Member
Level crossings are normally foolproof but not idiot proof and if used properly are normally safe for all users
satisnek
Member
Indeed. And there are edits just before each train passes.
Foggycorner
Member
There is a stipulated time but it is the minimum time between the barriers being down across the road and the fastest train arriving at the crossing
The RAIB report into the Athelney (near Taunton) accident, paragraph 41, states ORR guidance for AHBs that "95% of trains should arrive within 75 seconds and 50% within 50 seconds. These values are extensively discussed in the report. The crossing at Athelney for the accident train was operated outside these values.
Due to the proximity of Birkdale station, Crescent road operates a little differently to other AHBs. When a train enters Birkdale platform it operates a treadle and sets off a timer, this delays the lowering of the barriers for a short time to allow the train to complete it's station duties. At the same time the platform signal at Birkdale is held at danger until the barriers at Crescent road begin to lower. Presumably in this instance, the train was delayed at Birkdale for some reason causing the barriers to be down for longer than usual.
Dr_Paul
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I think that 'if necessary' refers to the necessity to cross the white lines to pass the stationary vehicles, rather than referring to the reason for crossing the white lines, that is, in this instance, the biker considering it a necessity for him to reach the front of the traffic queue.
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Signalling
Member
Not an expert on level crossings but the type of crossing for two barriers are MCB and AFBCL. An AFBCL, if the rules are similar to ABCL, requires that the trains do not exceed 56mph. I believe the speed limit there is 60mph so an AFBCL may not be permitted, leaving an MCB-type crossing as the only option which I imagine would have a large cost impact. I saw someone post that there is an upgrade pending, so maybe they are going for MCB.
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I'm surprised also by the lack of nearby double yellow lines of the parking variety; a glance at the video shows that there were parked cars quite close to the crossing. Assuming that this is the crossing area (I ran a Google maps search):
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.629...4!1sl8F3o-ASsubJxKOV6lRD_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It is generally considered OK for two-wheeled vehicles to pass lines of four-wheeled vehicles as they can often get through smaller gaps. Also, pedal cycles have different dynamics even compared to motor bikes; whereas engines can be run in neutral it is nigh on impossible to keep the legs moving while stopped on a bicycle (can be an issue on cold days and nights) and maintaining balance can be more awkward at low speed or when stopped, especially if there is even a small luggage/load imbalance. Also, speed limits do not generally apply to pedal cycles and the prevailing limit appears to be 20mph (based on the above Google maps link), so generally speaking it might (other circumstances permitting) be reasonable for a pedal cycle to pass motor vehicles in that general area (although very likely not on the double white lines).
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.629...4!1sl8F3o-ASsubJxKOV6lRD_w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It is generally considered OK for two-wheeled vehicles to pass lines of four-wheeled vehicles as they can often get through smaller gaps. Also, pedal cycles have different dynamics even compared to motor bikes; whereas engines can be run in neutral it is nigh on impossible to keep the legs moving while stopped on a bicycle (can be an issue on cold days and nights) and maintaining balance can be more awkward at low speed or when stopped, especially if there is even a small luggage/load imbalance. Also, speed limits do not generally apply to pedal cycles and the prevailing limit appears to be 20mph (based on the above Google maps link), so generally speaking it might (other circumstances permitting) be reasonable for a pedal cycle to pass motor vehicles in that general area (although very likely not on the double white lines).
They're all over the place on all sorts of roads and fast railways, they had a hiatus in installations after the Hixon crash but in the 80s and 90s chucked them in all over the place. I don't believe they're used as new installations anymore. I hate them, they're no problem if used correctly but there's been no end of collisions over the years.
But the rider had a GoPro. I think there's an exemption from prosecution if you've got one.
MichaelAMW
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I think it was a typical bit of stupid, arrogant and illegal motorbike riding. Ban for life, crush the bike. If you can't obey the law you can't use the road. It's rare to see anything else - certainly there are more cyclists and BMW drivers who are compliant.
Richard Ingram
Member
If you crush every vehicle that stops in a yellow box you would soon solve all traffic issues, as few people would be allowed on the road. I would guess most drivers have at times stopped at least partly in a yellow box, either because of a misjudgment, or because it is the only way to avoid being stuck at a junction for hours. As I, and another, has said before, the illegality of the overtake is questionable at best, and the maneuver was hardly dangerous. A little bit of live-and-let-live might be in order, and save the extreme responses for people who risk hurting others on the road.
When riding my motorbike, I position myself so I’m slightly in front of the lead car and I know the driver can clearly see me. If that means I have to go a bit over the solid white stop line, then so be it. I’d rather do this than risk the driver not seeing me and going over my toes (drivers tend to rock their car or roll forward to try to guess the lights, I have no idea why)
Anyway, enough of that, I’m used to people having a go at me for filtering and what not, back on topic.
@Bletchleyite theres 5 fast AHB crossings between Wrexham and Shrewsbury.
Western Rhyn - 70mph
Whittington - 70mph
Baschurch -70mph
Eyton - 70mph
Leaton - 90mph
Some of these are a bit scary approaching Whittington and Baschurch as cars are still crossing as you approach.
There were 4 more between Wrexham and Chester but they’ve been upgraded to Obstacle Dectection full barrier crossings now.
It would be interesting to see where the fastest half barrier crossing is. I believe there’s one (or more) on the ECML?
Anyway, enough of that, I’m used to people having a go at me for filtering and what not, back on topic.
@Bletchleyite theres 5 fast AHB crossings between Wrexham and Shrewsbury.
Western Rhyn - 70mph
Whittington - 70mph
Baschurch -70mph
Eyton - 70mph
Leaton - 90mph
Some of these are a bit scary approaching Whittington and Baschurch as cars are still crossing as you approach.
There were 4 more between Wrexham and Chester but they’ve been upgraded to Obstacle Dectection full barrier crossings now.
It would be interesting to see where the fastest half barrier crossing is. I believe there’s one (or more) on the ECML?
Highlandspring
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The maximum linespeed over an AHB crossing permitted by the ORR statutory guidance is 100mph. Markle AHB on the East Coast Main Line between Dunbar and Drem is 100mph in both directions. Also in Scotland Cleghorn crossing used to be an AHB and was 100mph but was converted to a CCTV supervised full barrier crossing as part of the West Coast EPS upgrade. Floriston on LNW route was the same I think..
Ahh brilliant. Thanks for that info. Is the half barrier on the ECML 4 track or two?
Highlandspring
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Two - as per the ORR statutory guidance the maximum number of lines an AHB is allowed to cross is three and the only one I can think of that actually crossed three lines was Floriston before it was renewed as an MCB CCTV.
Belperpete
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I have a vague recollection that there is or was an AHB somewhere with 4 barriers, where the railway crossed a dual carriageway. As each carriageway was dual lane, two barriers were needed to close it. Does anyone know where this was, or am I imagining it?
Joseph_Locke
Established Member
The length of time surprised me too. On a recent trip to the Netherlands I was at 't-Harde station between Zwolle and Amersfoort. It was a straight line with a 140 mh/h limit. I could see the train long before the crossing sequence started; it took just under 30 seconds for the front of the train to reach the crossing. There are thousands of similar crossings across the Netherlands.
JBuchananGB
Member
It is now reported that Network Rail will implement a full barrier crossing. Heaven only knows when
https://www.otsnews.co.uk/rail-chiefs-finally-cave-danger-crossing-safety-measures/
https://www.otsnews.co.uk/rail-chiefs-finally-cave-danger-crossing-safety-measures/
DarloRich
Veteran Member
The "yellow camera" will be nothing to do with the level crossing
What was the original reason for automatic crossings? I'm guessing it was to cut costs by reducing the number of signallers?
However they also have an obvious benefit for road users because they are normally only shut for up to 60 seconds compared with three minutes for full barrier crossings. On busy roads, tripling the amount of time that the road is shut will not be popular.
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to my mind it does seem wholly inappropriate to have half-barrier crossings in urban/suburban areas with high footfall, precisely because footways are two-way thus the whole point of a half barrier blocking the "entrance" but not the "exit" to the crossing is inverted, as demonstrated. What's supposed to be a safety feature thus immediately becomes a source of risk.
This dutch half-barrier crossing has separate barriers on the cycleways, which in this location are also the pedestrian footways. Whilst they are one-way each side for cycling (and low-speed mopeds), there is recognition of the risk for pedestrians so there are "exit" barriers on the cycleways.
This dutch half-barrier crossing has separate barriers on the cycleways, which in this location are also the pedestrian footways. Whilst they are one-way each side for cycling (and low-speed mopeds), there is recognition of the risk for pedestrians so there are "exit" barriers on the cycleways.
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This kit is very new (and there are not that many installations across the country) so I understand why you may have this incorrect perception.
https://www.networkrailmediacentre....h-motorists-who-endanger-lives-on-the-railway
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
Ah! They have been installed then! There were substantial issues to overcome in getting them certified. Thanks. I stand corrected.
Belperpete
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Correct on both counts.
On a moderately busy line, the cumulative effect of the longer crossing closed times can lead to really lengthy waits with full barriers. For example, with the full-barrier level crossings between Barnes and Richmond, by the time an up train has passed there isn't time to raise the barriers and then lower them again without the delaying the next down train, so the barriers stay down. Then by the time that down train has passed there is another up train approaching, and so the barriers stay down for that. It is not uncommon to have to wait for three or four trains to pass before the barriers eventually go up. In the morning or evening rush hours, this can lead to considerable tailbacks on the road.
JBuchananGB
Member
There are 5 level crossings in the first 2 miles of the Merseyrail line coming south from Southport. The first 4 are full barrier CCTV monitored. The Crescent Road one is the fifth, and has been half-barrier since installation in 1981. Eight trains per hour traverse these crossings. The most I have waited for is three at one time. Two is very common at Birkdale station as the up and down trains are timed to depart only 1 minute apart.
Deepgreen
Established Member
"Statutory guidance" - a contradiction in terms.
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