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LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)

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si404

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NatEx do it, I'm really not convinced the demand is adequate for a new railway line to be built to do it.
The suggestion was extending the Liverpool-Manchester-Airport-Crewe stopper, rather than new railway. It wasn't a highly serious proposal, but saying that this is the sort of thing to do if you want improved rail access to Manchester Airport from the south, rather than run a London train via the Trent Valley.

Of course, constraints mean it's unlikely to happen - replacing the EMT service between Crewe and Stoke is the only way to make space for it without doubling the line (which is surely on the Crewe hub cards?).
 
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pt_mad

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The suggestion was extending the Liverpool-Manchester-Airport-Crewe stopper, rather than new railway. It wasn't a highly serious proposal, but saying that this is the sort of thing to do if you want improved rail access to Manchester Airport from the south, rather than run a London train via the Trent Valley.

Of course, constraints mean it's unlikely to happen - replacing the EMT service between Crewe and Stoke is the only way to make space for it without doubling the line (which is surely on the Crewe hub cards?).
Afaik the forthcoming East Midlands Franchise announcement contained plans for the Crewe to Derby to be extended to Newark Castle. Correct me if I'm wrong. And 153s should be replaced around 6 months into the franchise by either 156 or 170 stock according to the EMR thread.
 

The Planner

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Of course, constraints mean it's unlikely to happen - replacing the EMT service between Crewe and Stoke is the only way to make space for it without doubling the line (which is surely on the Crewe hub cards?).
Nope. No increase in services along there so not part of the scope.
 

si404

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Afaik the forthcoming East Midlands Franchise announcement contained plans for the Crewe to Derby to be extended to Newark Castle. Correct me if I'm wrong. And 153s should be replaced around 6 months into the franchise by either 156 or 170 stock according to the EMR thread.
I'm really not sure how relevant that is for the Crewe to Stoke bit. They did cut it off at Derby as east of there caused issues. Maybe if issues start up again, the other end will go instead.

Nope. No increase in services along there so not part of the scope.
that's a shame. Maybe it's in Midlands Connect plans - they do propose a London and a Birmingham service between Crewe and Stoke in the late 2020s, suggesting a capacity increase.
 

RealTrains07

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NatEx do it, I'm really not convinced the demand is adequate for a new railway line to be built to do it.
Why build a new railway line when the infrastructure already exists (sort of) like northern and tpe aiport trains that go into man picc then Turn around and go back out of picc to the airport
 

RealTrains07

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Maybe it's in Midlands Connect plans - they do propose a London and a Birmingham service between Crewe and Stoke in the late 2020s, suggesting a capacity increase.
But with Midlands connect we’re talking about post HS2 and what would be post LNR franchise if abellio lose it

If the chase line and stoke line services are gonna change/merge/increase frequency or whatever then it would have to be sooner rather than mid-late 2020s
 

si404

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But with Midlands connect we’re talking about post HS2 and what would be post LNR franchise if abellio lose it
Indeed (though Manchester-Airport-Stoke would be Northern). Same with Crewe hub...

It wasn't a particularly on topic suggestion, but neither was the thread drift before it!
 

RealTrains07

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The suggestion was extending the Liverpool-Manchester-Airport-Crewe stopper, rather than new railway. It wasn't a highly serious proposal, but saying that this is the sort of thing to do if you want improved rail access to Manchester Airport from the south, rather than run a London train via the Trent Valley.

Of course, constraints mean it's unlikely to happen - replacing the EMT service between Crewe and Stoke is the only way to make space for it without doubling the line (which is surely on the Crewe hub cards?).

Its not a bad suggestion if it went through to Birmingham which would eliminate the need for a second LNR services altogether for stoke to Birmingham part of the line?

Which Frees up a 350 anyway, though LNR even adding a 2nd train isnt planned for a new timetable anytime soon
 

vlad

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Yes, it really is ridiculous that Stoke doesn't have a direct link to Manchester airport. It is very much our local airport and yet we're ignored. Another of the disadvantages of straddling 2 geographical areas, but not really belonging to either.

Central Trains used to run one. Given whenever I used it the train was more-or-less empty between Crewe and Manchester Airport I'm not surprised no-one else has had the idea!
 

RealTrains07

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Central Trains used to run one. Given whenever I used it the train was more-or-less empty between Crewe and Manchester Airport I'm not surprised no-one else has had the idea!
Difference between central trains and now is central trains used to run DMUs on their services which went via stafford. Things have changed alot since then
 

Bletchleyite

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Difference between central trains and now is central trains used to run DMUs on their services which went via stafford. Things have changed alot since then

It was an extension of the present Derby-Crewe EMT DMU service and did not go via or anywhere near Stafford.

CT wasn't just subsumed into LNR - half of it went into the EM franchise.
 

RealTrains07

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It was an extension of the present Derby-Crewe EMT DMU service and did not go via or anywhere near Stafford.

CT wasn't just subsumed into LNR - half of it went into the EM franchise.
Well silverlink and central trains merged and i do recall seeing a central trains 2 car DMU running at stafford at 1 point

I know, the only reason why EMT run trains through stoke. Used to be under the same franchise as LNR
 

87015

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Excelled themselves today... 1305 Liverpool - Euston 12L at Rugby so Control order run fast Bletchley-Euston. It’s got a 13 dwell at Northampton so right time off there, far too difficult for them to have either realised this made it a pointless idea to start with or bothered to put the stops back in. Shower from top to bottom.
 

Bletchleyite

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Excelled themselves today... 1305 Liverpool - Euston 12L at Rugby so Control order run fast Bletchley-Euston. It’s got a 13 dwell at Northampton so right time off there, far too difficult for them to have either realised this made it a pointless idea to start with or bothered to put the stops back in. Shower from top to bottom.

That sounds like a Control who are just floundering and firefighting in the face of an utterly unworkable timetable and set of diagrams. I wouldn't want to be them at the moment.
 

RealTrains07

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It was a service from Rugby to Stafford and only roughly two-hourly. Or something like that.

The present LNR timetable offers the hourly through service from Euston to Crewe, which (even in its present poor level of punctuality/reliability) is a marked improvement.

Id say nearly all LNR services today are a massive improvement compared to what they were in the 90s/early 2000s

Did stations on the trent valley even exist before 2008?
 

Tuppenny Tube

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Well silverlink and central trains merged and i do recall seeing a central trains 2 car DMU running at stafford at 1 point

If I remember correctly didn't the Liverpool - Birmingham service used to go through to Stansted Airport at one point, operated by class 156s' & 170s' ? It must have been early in the Central franchise or, perhaps, even pre Central but that would account for the 2 car DMUs'.
 

pt_mad

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Id say nearly all LNR services today are a massive improvement compared to what they were in the 90s/early 2000s

Did stations on the trent valley even exist before 2008?
They did. Most of the larger town stations were served by VTWC services, every hour (Liverpool Nuneaton call) or every 2 hours (Tamworth mostly by Prestons, and Lichfield).

If I remember correctly didn't the Liverpool - Birmingham service used to go through to Stansted Airport at one point, operated by class 156s' & 170s' ? It must have been early in the Central franchise or, perhaps, even pre Central but that would account for the 2 car DMUs'.
I presume you meant Stafford and not Stansted. And yes as far as I know you are correct and a 170 Birmingham New St to Liverpool did go via Stafford.
 

Tuppenny Tube

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I presume you meant Stafford and not Stansted. And yes as far as I know you are correct and a 170 Birmingham New St to Liverpool did go via Stafford.

Wow, you mean Stafford has an Airport !

Seriously, I did mean Stansted Airport, I think the Birmingham-Leicester-Stansted service, now operated by Cross Country, was tagged onto the back of the Liverpool to Birmingham service creating a through link.
Although all of this is a bit 'off-topic' I seem to recall that delays on that lengthy route created exactly the same unreliability issues as the new Euston-Birmingham-Liverpool service.
History repeating itself perhaps ?
 

james60059

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Difference between central trains and now is central trains used to run DMUs on their services which went via stafford. Things have changed alot since then

The CT DMU's use to terminate at Stafford or sometimes Stoke On Trent calling at the likes of Norton Bridge, Barlaston and Wedgewood, usually originated at Coventry although I believe they used to run from Birmingham New Street to Stafford to via The Chase Line as well.
 

james60059

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Did stations on the trent valley even exist before 2008?

They did, but had a sporadic service at best, they were only served by the Coventry - Stafford/Stoke service until 2004 when they were "bustituted" for a couple of years, then from 2006 there was a limited service (2 or 3 per day Class 350) going from Crewe to London Euston, can't remember the timings fully but there was an 18:00 from Tamworth (originated at Crewe) to London Euston, which called at Atherstone, Nuneaton, Rugby and then fast to London Euston - I know that well as when I was spotting at the time it used to be touch and go whether I'd see the 6M51 Hull - Rugeley loaded coal on the top level before getting the unit back to Nuneaton, sometimes I would sometimes I wouldn't :lol:
 

RealTrains07

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They did, but had a sporadic service at best, they were only served by the Coventry - Stafford/Stoke service until 2004 when they were "bustituted" for a couple of years, then from 2006 there was a limited service (2 or 3 per day Class 350) going from Crewe to London Euston, can't remember the timings fully but there was an 18:00 from Tamworth (originated at Crewe) to London Euston, which called at Atherstone, Nuneaton, Rugby and then fast to London Euston - I know that well as when I was spotting at the time it used to be touch and go whether I'd see the 6M51 Hull - Rugeley loaded coal on the top level before getting the unit back to Nuneaton, sometimes I would sometimes I wouldn't :lol:
How they got away with 2 to 3 services a day on a line like that is beyond me! But at least one thing we can all agree with is the frequency has improved on all parts mostly with the new timetable
 

MarkWiles

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As someone who used to live in Armitage and occasionally used the Trent Valley service from Lichfield in the 1980s and 1990s, the original local service was for many years a Rugby or Nuneaton to Stafford EMU, running at odd times on a roughly two to three hour cycle, serving Nuneaton, Atherstone, Polesworth, Tamworth, Lichfield TV, Rugeley and Stafford, timed to make connections into Inter Cities at each end. Normally it was a Class 304, fun for the guard as Atherstone, Polesworth and Rugeley were all unstaffed and the 304s were non-corridor. In addition, Lichfield got two Inter Cities in the morning to London, one about 06.30 and another an hour or so later, and two back in the evening, one about 6 and another about 7pm. Lichfield TV of course had short platforms then so most of the train was off the platform. These trains were quite well used when I caught them in the 1990s. In about 1993-4 Inter City started stopping the first Glasgow daytime departure out of Euston at Lichfield, which gave Lichfield a morning northbound service even though it was virtually semi-fast to Glasgow. I did it once on a Railrover just for the novelty of going direct from little Lichfield to Glasgow. Tamworth always had a slightly better inter City service than Lichfield, probably a throwback to when the electrification scheme was introduced and places like Burton on Trent were intended to be more quickly served by connections at Tamworth than going up to Derby. However, if I recall correctly the service frequency varied throughout the day.

In the 1980s the electric all shacks was replaced with a DMU which turned off at Nuneaton to go to Coventry. I briefly worked in Atherstone in the late 1980s and we were warned not to bring our cars into town on Atherstone Ball Game day as they might get damaged by the ensuing riot, so the early TV local DMU from Lichfield to Atherstone was very useful on those days, I do recall a very pleasant trundle down the WCML on a Class 108 one Shrove Tuesday.

The basic pattern remained the same on privatisation apart from the short lived North West Trains Manchester Airport to Euston service, which used the ex Stansted Class 322s, stopping at Tamworth. Again, I did sample the service once just to try it out, driving down to Tamworth to pick it up.

The current level of service along the Trent Valley is probably the best it has ever had in terms of frequency and usefulness to local communities along the line.

By the way, there was a Stansted to Liverpool via Birmingham and Stafford service for a while in Central days, it was simply the Stansted to Birmingham set working forward on a Birmingham to Liverpool diagram which occasionally saw DMU operation. Again I once caught it from Stafford to Birmingham so I know it ran at least once!
 

Bletchleyite

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By the way, there was a Stansted to Liverpool via Birmingham and Stafford service for a while in Central days, it was simply the Stansted to Birmingham set working forward on a Birmingham to Liverpool diagram which occasionally saw DMU operation. Again I once caught it from Stafford to Birmingham so I know it ran at least once!

It didn't just run once, it was the norm for quite a while in CT days. They were big fans of the Liverpool-Norwich "mash-up" and sought to replicate it on lots of other services. And unlike today's LNR mash-ups (hooray - back on topic! :) ) it was, I believe, reasonably reliable, unlike Liverpool-Norwich which never was and still isn't.
 
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