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Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR

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dk1

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The trolley passed through several times on my 1032 Newton Abbot-Bodmin Parkway this morning. Sadly the same can't be said for the 1617 return journey. No sign & no announcements and we are almost at Totnes. Was looking forward to a beer or two. Oh well.
 
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Master29

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No not really.
A proper buffet offers freshly brewed real coffee, hot cooked snacks such as bacon rolls, and chilled beer and soft drinks.

A trolley offers a very limited selection of poor quality hot drinks, if available at all, lukewarm beer, and no hot food.

Supporters of the IETs suggested that the trolley would be wonderful and that the advantages of being served at ones table would compensate for the reduced range.
We are now hearing suggestions that a static trolley would be even better. What rubbish. A static trolley combines the limited stock of poor quality products, with having to walk and find it, or more likely find it not available.

Rather than trying different permutations of the failed trolley service, time to admit defeat and bring back a proper buffet with decent stock and facilities. A MINIMUM offering IMHO should include
4 types/styles of real coffee. 4 choices of tea. drinking chocolate. hot soup.
6 different chilled soft drinks.
6 choices of beer, cider, and lager, all cold.
several choices of wine in different bottle sizes.
6 different spirits and a choice of mixers.
3 different hot snacks such as bacon rolls, beef in a bun, and hot sausage in a bun.
Several choices of sandwiches.
Other cold snacks such as pork pies and scotch eggs.
Crisps, peanuts, confectionary.

Cant offer that from a trolley, not even the new static trolley that is so much better than a mobile trolley.
You got it all here in a nutshell.
 

Busaholic

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Well, I've made my decision. Travelled on the 10.00 IET Penzance to Truro today and the seat was really uncomfortable. Sitting at the back of the carriage, not even a scrap of window, opposite the luggage rack, I was able to look at the basic structure of the seats and they struck me as a throwback to Pacer days i.e. no consideration of passenger comfort taken into account. My return was on one of the short HSTs and, though not super comfortable, was at least acceptable. Having in the gap between my journeys been diagnosed as having MS I'm afraid I'm not prepared to book a long journey e.g. to Paddington any longer, so GWR won't be getting my custom.
 

PHILIPE

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Well, I've made my decision. Travelled on the 10.00 IET Penzance to Truro today and the seat was really uncomfortable. Sitting at the back of the carriage, not even a scrap of window, opposite the luggage rack, I was able to look at the basic structure of the seats and they struck me as a throwback to Pacer days i.e. no consideration of passenger comfort taken into account. My return was on one of the short HSTs and, though not super comfortable, was at least acceptable. Having in the gap between my journeys been diagnosed as having MS I'm afraid I'm not prepared to book a long journey e.g. to Paddington any longer, so GWR won't be getting my custom.

Was there a buffet ?
 

Bromley boy

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No; no GWR 80x have buffets.

Since I promised to report back...

It helps when you can flash the staff pass and sit in first class.... :D

I’ll admit the buffet experience wasn’t that bad at all. Decent range of sandwiches, ordered an Americano coffee, then was offered a “coffee bag” which I wasn’t charged for due to Americanos being unavailable.

I was given a paper bag to carry it back to my seat.

I paid £4ish for a tuna sandwich this morning. Not that bad considering.
 
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takno

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After an hour in one of the awful seats earlier on I'd have liked nothing more than to be able to take a nice long walk to the buffet. Instead I had to wait for a useless trolley to make its tediously slow progress past all the luggage mountains before I could even go to the toilet. Ended up sitting cross legged in the vestibule because it was mildly less uncomfortable than the seats. Let's face it, a buffet would be nice but it's not going to save those junkheaps.
 

Master29

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There`s a deathly silence of all the defenders of the 800 along with it`s myriad of failures. In the meantime the criticisms just grow and grow. I think it`s now pretty much safe to say we`ve been sold a lemon.
 

pt_mad

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No not really.
A proper buffet offers freshly brewed real coffee, hot cooked snacks such as bacon rolls, and chilled beer and soft drinks.

A trolley offers a very limited selection of poor quality hot drinks, if available at all, lukewarm beer, and no hot food.

Supporters of the IETs suggested that the trolley would be wonderful and that the advantages of being served at ones table would compensate for the reduced range.
We are now hearing suggestions that a static trolley would be even better. What rubbish. A static trolley combines the limited stock of poor quality products, with having to walk and find it, or more likely find it not available.

Rather than trying different permutations of the failed trolley service, time to admit defeat and bring back a proper buffet with decent stock and facilities. A MINIMUM offering IMHO should include
4 types/styles of real coffee. 4 choices of tea. drinking chocolate. hot soup.
6 different chilled soft drinks.
6 choices of beer, cider, and lager, all cold.
several choices of wine in different bottle sizes.
6 different spirits and a choice of mixers.
3 different hot snacks such as bacon rolls, beef in a bun, and hot sausage in a bun.
Several choices of sandwiches.
Other cold snacks such as pork pies and scotch eggs.
Crisps, peanuts, confectionary.

Cant offer that from a trolley, not even the new static trolley that is so much better than a mobile trolley.
Ok I didn't realise all that was available from the previous buffet counter. Personally I would rather walk to a fixed place to fetch refreshments so that I can choose when I go and can wait until mid journey or half hour before I get off or whatever. However, we are now at a point where the trains have been built and are in service. And losing seats is not likely to receive any positive coverage surely? So much marketing now is about figures relating to extra X number of seats, like hundreds per week etc. So realistically how likely is getting rid of some?

If it could be done whilst keeping the existing net seat count obviously that wouldn't cause any problems at face value. Hence the questioning of a mini buffet with only small room needed for stock.
 

irish_rail

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After an hour in one of the awful seats earlier on I'd have liked nothing more than to be able to take a nice long walk to the buffet. Instead I had to wait for a useless trolley to make its tediously slow progress past all the luggage mountains before I could even go to the toilet. Ended up sitting cross legged in the vestibule because it was mildly less uncomfortable than the seats. Let's face it, a buffet would be nice but it's not going to save those junkheaps.
Hit the nail on the head there. On long journeys, many passengers actually LIKE the walk to the buffet. Few people actually want to stay seated in what is not a very comfortable seat for 3 to 5 hours and welcome the chance to stretch ones legs.
 

Bletchleyite

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Hit the nail on the head there. On long journeys, many passengers actually LIKE the walk to the buffet. Few people actually want to stay seated in what is not a very comfortable seat for 3 to 5 hours and welcome the chance to stretch ones legs.

Whereas most would be happy to stay there for 2 hours.

I think the ultimate conclusion of this is that ordering what are basically poshed-up suburban EMUs in terms of interior and spec[1], which are fine for the Bristols and the likes, for the Westcountry services was not the right choice, and something more specifically designed for that longer journey in terms of interior fit-out would make a lot more sense.

I suppose VT do use Pendolinos both for 90 minutes ish to Birmingham and well over 4 hours to Scotland, but they do have an interior suitable for the longer journey, so are just quite nice for the shorter one, in a way a bit like the way a widebody aircraft sometimes shows up on a short haul flight.

[1] The ambiance I find is a bit 350 (or 444)-like, generally.
 

pt_mad

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Whereas most would be happy to stay there for 2 hours.

I think the ultimate conclusion of this is that ordering what are basically poshed-up suburban EMUs in terms of interior and spec[1], which are fine for the Bristols and the likes, for the Westcountry services was not the right choice, and something more specifically designed for that longer journey in terms of interior fit-out would make a lot more sense.

I suppose VT do use Pendolinos both for 90 minutes ish to Birmingham and well over 4 hours to Scotland, but they do have an interior suitable for the longer journey, so are just quite nice for the shorter one, in a way a bit like the way a widebody aircraft sometimes shows up on a short haul flight.

[1] The ambiance I find is a bit 350 (or 444)-like, generally.
But the 80x stock has buffets on the ECML so surely it's just a case of the choice of catering fittings, rather than the stock being unsuitable?
 

Bletchleyite

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But the 80x stock has buffets on the ECML so surely it's just a case of the choice of catering fittings, rather than the stock being unsuitable?

That would be one option - a dedicated fleet of 5-cars (as that's the plan) could be modified for the Westcountry services only? That said, I could see the sense (if it could be done cost-effectively) in a totally different, rather more luxurious interior for the longer-distance services, perhaps even including things like reclining seats in Standard. The DB ICE interior would be a good start here.

The Penzance services are rather unique in the UK in being a very long distance daytime run of well over 5 hours on which almost everyone is doing the whole journey (or near to it) - the Chieftain and Aberdeen LNERs are about the only other ones and these too could perhaps do with a custom interior (though at least those 80x have buffets).
 
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Ianno87

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Hit the nail on the head there. On long journeys, many passengers actually LIKE the walk to the buffet. Few people actually want to stay seated in what is not a very comfortable seat for 3 to 5 hours and welcome the chance to stretch ones legs.

Not sure about that as a majority rule; many people are now paranoid about leaving bags unattended (especially with laptops etc.)/risking losing their seat these days.
 

LowLevel

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I have always enjoyed having some food and a drink on the train. Without fail a trip on DB ICE trains features a wander up and at least a few Erdingers and a coffee. I quite often have a sit down meal for a reasonable price in the Bord Bistro or Restaurant. Even with a crappy UK trolley service I'll have a coffee but I won't touch the food or drink.

I still can't believe they plumped for the Western to not have a fixed buffet with a fridge, microwave and coffee machine. If Greater Anglia think they can make it work for London to Norwich I'm at a loss as to how it can't work for Paddington to Penzance/Exeter/Bristol and how they've managed to procure stock for Bedwyn and Oxford local runs with an absolutely useless humongous kitchen that theoretically once they finally get the trains in order and working won't even have a train manager.

The entire spec is for the London commuter market and the Intercity side has been shoe horned in alongside it.
 

HamworthyGoods

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I still can't believe they plumped for the Western to not have a fixed buffet with a fridge, microwave and coffee machine. If Greater Anglia think they can make it work for London to Norwich I'm at a loss as to how it can't work for Paddington to Penzance/Exeter/Bristol and how they've managed to procure stock for Bedwyn and Oxford local runs with an absolutely useless humongous kitchen that theoretically once they finally get the trains in order and working won't even have a train manager.

Simply because DfT had much greater control over the specification of IETs on Great Western (East Coast and Anglia stock was allowed to be franchise specified) and DfT required all the versions of the IETs to have the same interior specification.

Not agreeing if that is right etc....
 

Master29

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AFAIK the GWR 802`s had nothing to do with the IEP project and were a separate order entirely and the specs had nothing to do with the DaFT. Regarding the latter point I am not totally sure though. I was under the impression this was GWR`s handiwork.
 

Bletchleyite

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AFAIK the GWR 802`s had nothing to do with the IEP project and were a separate order entirely and the specs had nothing to do with the DaFT. Regarding the latter point I am not totally sure though. I was under the impression this was GWR`s handiwork.

I have read, possibly over-cynical, suggestions that the DfT warned GWR off making them better to avoid the originals looking bad.
 

LowLevel

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Simply because DfT had much greater control over the specification of IETs on Great Western (East Coast and Anglia stock was allowed to be franchise specified) and DfT required all the versions of the IETs to have the same interior specification.

Not agreeing if that is right etc....

I am well aware of that, merely bemoaning that it is the case :D
 

takno

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But the 80x stock has buffets on the ECML so surely it's just a case of the choice of catering fittings, rather than the stock being unsuitable?
Having a buffet can only improve the situation. I'm fairly sure I'm still going to have to switch to the west coast to get to London, but the buffet option might let people with stronger backs manage
 

irish_rail

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What goes against the buffets chances even more is the 5 car thing. To fit buffets to all the padd to Penzance 802s would need twice the number of buffets added than would of been the case had the 9 cars been selected for the South West trains. Another example of short sighted thinking.
 

ashkeba

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It's at the end, and yes it potentially could result in that which is a downside if you put a buffet there. But that wasn't my proposal - my proposal was for an improved at seat service. Only staff would be walking through with the orders.
That sounds dangerously like the Austrian RailJet food service, so therefore is foreign muck which people will campaign to ban from British trains.
 

Bletchleyite

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What goes against the buffets chances even more is the 5 car thing. To fit buffets to all the padd to Penzance 802s would need twice the number of buffets added than would of been the case had the 9 cars been selected for the South West trains. Another example of short sighted thinking.

To be fair VT do staff both buffets in 10-car Voyager sets. It does have an advantage - less of a walk and less of a queue. It's a long way from coach U to coach C on a Pendolino, even longer if you're in K and First Class is "turn up and get your own" due to short staffing or on a weekend.
 

Bletchleyite

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That sounds dangerously like the Austrian RailJet food service, so therefore is foreign muck which people will campaign to ban from British trains.

The entire RailJet product offering looks like it would be very suitable for the Westcountry route, to be honest (that and XC). Maybe not the super-premium-class, but certainly the rest of it. Perhaps add a specific family coach with play area too. Edit: Oh, RJ has that too!

Of course all this would work better in one long set than two short ones...
 

Clarence Yard

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I have read, possibly over-cynical, suggestions that the DfT warned GWR off making them better to avoid the originals looking bad.

I was involved in that procurement and to say that the DfT were concerned when they found out that they could have a different internal specification would be a complete understatement!

It is fair to say that GWR would not have been given permission to order the sets had the internal specification been any different to what the DfT had ordered.

The East Coast bidders could deviate from the GW spec in 12 respects, iirc from my EC bid work. Some were very minor but the catering deviation raised a few eyebrows with those of us who were also involved with the GW introduction.
 

43096

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I have read, possibly over-cynical, suggestions that the DfT warned GWR off making them better to avoid the originals looking bad.
But Stagecoach managed to get buffets into the East Coast fleet.

Perhaps WorstGroup should have “grown a pair” and insisted on it. Then again, WorstGroup has never been a company to give a stuff about its punters.
 

bnm

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My family travelled from Padding to Penzance which is 5 hours. We didn't bring any food as expected some form of service on-board. The children where crying all the way along as they were starving.

So, abrogating parental responsibility to a third party?

There's a clear warning on GWR's website that catering facilities could be unavailable due to operational reasons.
 
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