Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals

nr758123 · 16 Jul 2019

Kieran1990 said:
The Newcastle- Man Apt also pick up a call at Dewsbury every hour, instead of the Hull- Piccadilly.
Hull services won’t call at Mosley either!

Mossley transfers to the Manchester to Huddersfield stopper.

The Hull service loses stops at Garforth and Dewsbury (but gains other stops at peak times)

The Scarborough service gains stops at Garforth & Stalybridge

Newcastle & Middlesbrough/Redcar services gain stops at Dewsbury

The Hull train essentially becomes a commuter service for East Leeds & Huddersfield to Stalybridge at peak times.

It gives Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite a half-hourly service during the morning and evening peaks (including Saturdays), reinstating the peak frequency which existed before May 2018, with alternate trains continuing to Leeds (and Hull), so I’ll be happy with that.

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_toommm_ · 16 Jul 2019

nr758123 said:
Mossley transfers to the Manchester to Huddersfield stopper.

The Hull service loses stops at Garforth and Dewsbury (but gains other stops at peak times)

The Scarborough service gains stops at Garforth & Stalybridge

Newcastle & Middlesbrough/Redcar services gain stops at Dewsbury

The Hull train essentially becomes a commuter service for East Leeds & Huddersfield to Stalybridge at peak times.

It gives Mossley, Greenfield, Marsden and Slaithwaite a half-hourly service during the morning and evening peaks (including Saturdays), reinstating the peak frequency which existed before May 2018, with alternate trains continuing to Leeds (and Hull), so I’ll be happy with that.

I'm glad Mossley has moved to the stopper, as it makes it genuinely a stopper, and avoids the awkward journeys from it at the moment.

Starmill · 16 Jul 2019

Surely there aren't going to be two 0811 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport services? That's going to cause endless confusion.

Starmill · 16 Jul 2019

nr758123 said:
Newcastle & Middlesbrough/Redcar services gain stops at Dewsbury

The services to Middlesbrough already call at Dewsbury. What's happening is the Hull service loses its Dewsbury call and the Newcastle service stops instead.

DanTrain · 16 Jul 2019

Starmill said:
Surely there aren't going to be two 0811 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport services? That's going to cause endless confusion.

Could they not be advertised as Leeds or something, no-one will actually use it to Man Air as it’s slower than the ‘other’ 08:11. It does seem odd that they both leave at the same time though!

_toommm_ · 16 Jul 2019

Starmill said:
Surely there aren't going to be two 0811 Edinburgh to Manchester Airport services? That's going to cause endless confusion.

They'll probably use false destinations, like they do at Leeds with the Leeds to York via Harrogate stoppers...

Islandexpress · 16 Jul 2019

Can anybody explain why Hull (pop 260K) always gets the raw end of the service, I.e. stopped and only to Manchester, whereas Scarborough (pop 82K) gets the express and all the way to Liverpool services. Is it just inertia or the need to clock-face York? One would have thought an ‘M62’ service would be preferable?

(Sorry to the good burghers of Scarborough!!)

Starmill · 16 Jul 2019

DanTrain said:
Could they not be advertised as Leeds or something, no-one will actually use it to Man Air as it’s slower than the ‘other’ 08:11. It does seem odd that they both leave at the same time though!

_toommm_ said:
They'll probably use false destinations, like they do at Leeds with the Leeds to York via Harrogate stoppers...

They certainly won't be able to use Leeds as the false destination, because somebody could have an Advance from Edinburgh to Huddersfield for that train.

Ianno87 · 16 Jul 2019

DanTrain said:
Could they not be advertised as Leeds or something, no-one will actually use it to Man Air as it’s slower than the ‘other’ 08:11. It does seem odd that they both leave at the same time though!

_toommm_ said:
They'll probably use false destinations, like they do at Leeds with the Leeds to York via Harrogate stoppers...

Starmill said:
They certainly won't be able to use Leeds as the false destination, because somebody could have an Advance from Edinburgh to Huddersfield for that train.

Or somebody could quite legitimately have an Edinburgh-Man Airport Advance on either train...

Again, this forum is obsessed with false destinations....

Pre-2008 there were two xx03 Virgin XC departures from Birmingham New Street to Edinburgh every hour...

_toommm_ · 16 Jul 2019

Ianno87 said:
Or somebody could quite legitimately have an Edinburgh-Man Airport Advance on either train...

Again, this forum is obsessed with false destinations....

Pre-2008 there were two xx03 Virgin XC departures from Birmingham New Street to Edinburgh every hour...

Or via points instead then?

BHXDMT · 16 Jul 2019

Looking at the South Route...

There appears to be a new 05:21 Sheffield to Cleethorpes, arriving 07:14, operating Mon-Sat.

Also a new 21:26 Cleethorpes to Sheffield, arriving 23:18, operating Mon-Fri.

And a new 21:16 Cleethorpes to Sheffield, arriving 23:00, operating on Sundays.

Nearly all trains call at Habrough vice the current every 2 hours, and nearly all the East Didsbury calls have been removed from Airport bound services.

Hophead · 16 Jul 2019

Could one of the Edinburgh - Airport trains just have its public timetable departure time set a minute earlier? The working timetable is different to the public version in many ways.

Greybeard33 · 16 Jul 2019

J-P_L said:
Redcar-Manchester Airport services all look to call at Gatley in both directions.

The Manchester Airport to Redcar services also have timing provision for a call at Salford Central, eastbound only, dependent on completion of the additional platforms.

Looking at the Manchester Airport timings, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...9/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TP, turnaround times for the Redcar and Newcastle/Edinburgh (ECML) services have been reduced from 40 to 30 minutes, and those for the Glasgow/Edinburgh (WCML) services have been reduced from 27 to 23 minutes. The Cleethorpes services retain their 30 minute turnarounds. The turnaround time reductions are accomplished mainly by increasing journey times through Manchester. For example, Airport to Victoria goes up from 30 to 35 minutes, and Airport to Bolton from 33 to 36 minutes. This should give more resilience to congestion in the Castlefield corridor.

Although Northern and TfW services have not yet been uploaded, it looks as though the revised timings will allow all TPE services to single occupy platforms at the Airport, enabling the use of 5-car/6-car trains. If the Northern and TfW trains are no longer than 4-car, and so can double occupy the remaining Airport platforms, they should be able to squeeze into the platforms not occupied by TPE at the appropriate times.

xtradj · 17 Jul 2019

Missing an 18xx Newcastle or Edinburgh from Liverpool? Surely that’s an error otherwise an hour gap at peak time

scrapy · 17 Jul 2019

Greybeard33 said:
The Manchester Airport to Redcar services also have timing provision for a call at Salford Central, eastbound only, dependent on completion of the additional platforms.

Its an error with the planning software. Northern had the same issue at the last timetable change with eastbound Liverpool to Manchester Victorias showing Salford Central as a calling ppint on traincrew diagrams. There's no chance the platforms will be completed within the next 12 month's anyhow.

Johnny Lewis · 17 Jul 2019

I do wonder just how much of this TPE service will actually run! I'd certainly heard rumours that the Edinburgh extensions of Liverpool to Newcastle trains would initially only be 2 hourly, not hourly. And I'm still not holding my breath about Liverpool - Glasgow via WCML services actually starting. It also seems a pity that their rather random calling patterns haven't been addressed: the oddball call at Lea Green in just one southbound train is still there.
I'm hoping to travel on the Virgin Pendolino service from Glasgow Central to Liverpool on Saturday 3 August: as they have been (and still are) selling AP tickets on this service, it'll be interesting to see how many people travel on it to Liverpool! Ironic that Virgin beat TPE to running a direct Glasgow to Liverpool service, even if only a handful of times!

hibtastic · 17 Jul 2019

So is that a third TPE stop at Stalybridge? Two per hour to Piccadilly, one per hour to Victoria and Liverpool?

Starmill · 17 Jul 2019

hibtastic said:
So is that a third TPE stop at Stalybridge? Two per hour to Piccadilly, one per hour to Victoria and Liverpool?

It seems to be. Presumably Northern will no longer run one of the current Manchester Vic <> Stalybridge trains.

On current data, noteworthy too is that 0600 Hudersfield to Manchester Piccadilly will depart at the earlier time of 0554 and start back at Wakefield Kirkgate at 0524, calling at Mirfield and Deighton, and that 2317 Manchester Piccadilly to Huddersfield will depart at the earlier time of 2300 and continue to Wakefield Kirkgate arriving at 0006, calling at Deighton and Mirfield. A new service will depart Manchester Piccadilly at 2335 for stations to Huddersfield. Some very significant expansions to these services in my opinion.

Among a number of other benefits for Stalybridge passengers, the 0625 Manchester Vic to Liverpool Lime Street will depart at the earlier time of 0619 and start back at Stalybridge at 0600.

hibtastic · 17 Jul 2019

Starmill said:
It seems to be. Presumably Northern will no longer run one of the current Manchester Vic <> Stalybridge trains.

That either means TPE calling at Ashton under Lyne or that station losing one of its services per hour.

BrianB · 17 Jul 2019

I am not a regular user of Realtime Trains as I am no longer a regular user of UK trains, so am curious as to how you are getting this information out of it. If I start on the home page and go to the search panel, then insert Huddersfield for example, how/where do I specify 16/12/2019? Even if that is what I enter it will not display any results after 14/10/2019 (13 week window from now), yet I can clearly see from some of the examples shown that an advance search is possible into December. Am obviously missing something obvious and simple, just cant see it!

Greybeard33 · 17 Jul 2019

BrianB said:
I am not a regular user of Realtime Trains as I am no longer a regular user of UK trains, so am curious as to how you are getting this information out of it. If I start on the home page and go to the search panel, then insert Huddersfield for example, how/where do I specify 16/12/2019? Even if that is what I enter it will not display any results after 14/10/2019 (13 week window from now), yet I can clearly see from some of the examples shown that an advance search is possible into December. Am obviously missing something obvious and simple, just cant see it!

You are probably using the "Simple" search option of RTT. Click Search on the webpage menu bar (desktop version) or tap the button with three lines then tap Search (mobile version). Then choose Detailed.

BrianB · 17 Jul 2019

Greybeard33 said:
You are probably using the "Simple" search option of RTT. Click Search on the webpage menu bar (desktop version) or tap the button with three lines then tap Search (mobile version). Then choose Detailed.

OK thank, just got it sussed, also need to specify the time range before the date range.

So final question, are you all just trawling location after location to build up a picture of what is happening or are you able to see/build a table view of all services?

_toommm_ · 17 Jul 2019

BrianB said:
OK thank, just got it sussed, also need to specify the time range before the date range.

So final question, are you all just trawling location after location to build up a picture of what is happening or are you able to see/build a table view of all services?

There is a filter which allows you to set the applicable TOC (Train Operating Compay), and services that pass through and stop at x station. You could set the station as Manchester Picc, set it for services passing through or stopping at Huddersfield, then set it as TPE only, to see the relevant services.

rg177 · 17 Jul 2019

I see Newcastle is set to get an extension of what is currently the 0138 York to Manchester Airport, starting back at 0008.

I can see this being a quiet service and subject to frequent alteration but useful for us folk who need to be at Manchester Airport first thing but don't want to be paying for hotels!

nr758123 · 17 Jul 2019

Starmill said:
The services to Middlesbrough already call at Dewsbury. What's happening is the Hull service loses its Dewsbury call and the Newcastle service stops instead.

Sorry, my mistake. We all make mistakes (said the dalek climbing off the dustbin).

hibtastic said:
That either means TPE calling at Ashton under Lyne or that station losing one of its services per hour.

Fairly sure that Northern will still be running two per hour between Victoria and Stalybridge, with the current Wigan (NW?) to Stalybridge becoming Southport to Stalybridge.

If it happens as set out, then it's really good news for several stations which were really badly hit by the May 2018 timetable changes.

Johnny Lewis · 17 Jul 2019

Dewsbury gets back its near-clockface half-hourly service to Manchester Airport (albeit now via Ordsall curve) which will certainly please the locals!

Starmill · 17 Jul 2019

It'd be rather bizarre to slow down fast trains between Manchester and Leeds by adding more calls at Stalybridge wouldn't it? Stalybridge already has 4 trains per hour to Manchester. Indeed the North TP would be slower than they were before May 2014 if so, with only one train per hour completing the journey between Manchester and Leeds in 48 minutes. Speeding up services towards Hull by removing the Dewsbury call is a bit odd too, because one would have thought there would be far more Newcastle-bound through passengers, more sensitive to journey time. TPE said themselves last year that the vast majority of their passengers travelling to and from Hull don't travel west of Leeds.

Glenn1969 · 17 Jul 2019

3 tph at Stalybridge but 2 of them are 8 minutes apart (only 2 or 3 mins apart in Morning peak) Eastbound for TPE

Class 170101 · 17 Jul 2019

rg177 said:
I see Newcastle is set to get an extension of what is currently the 0138 York to Manchester Airport, starting back at 0008.

I can see this being a quiet service and subject to frequent alteration but useful for us folk who need to be at Manchester Airport first thing but don't want to be paying for hotels!

Interesting its being allowed to run from Newcastle. NR made TPE withdraw this train some years ago between Newcastle and York.

Xenophon PCDGS · 18 Jul 2019

Class 170101 said:
Interesting its being allowed to run from Newcastle. NR made TPE withdraw this train some years ago between Newcastle and York.

Was that anything to do with making Liverpool Lime Street rather than Manchester Airport the destination at that time?

Transpennine Express December 2019 Proposals

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