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Wireless charging on trains

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6Gtraincrew

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Just noticed a post by someone on twitter who has been to Vivarail for a nosey around and they say that wireless charging will be at some of the table seats on the tfw sets.
 
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duffield

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Wireless charging, whilst a few seconds more convenient, is quite wasteful compared to wired charging (no source, but I seem to remember that comparatively about 70% of the energy is wasted). Probably a drop in the ocean, but nonetheless not ideal.
 

gazthomas

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Wireless charging, whilst a few seconds more convenient, is quite wasteful compared to wired charging (no source, but I seem to remember that comparatively about 70% of the energy is wasted).
I agree with that, but I wonder at so low voltages and current it's that material.
 

Bletchleyite

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Wireless charging, whilst a few seconds more convenient, is quite wasteful compared to wired charging (no source, but I seem to remember that comparatively about 70% of the energy is wasted). Probably a drop in the ocean, but nonetheless not ideal.

The big upside on a train is that you don't need to carry anything around to charge. At home it's probably fairly pointless, when out and about is where it has value.
 

duffield

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The big upside on a train is that you don't need to carry anything around to charge. At home it's probably fairly pointless, when out and about is where it has value.

On the other hand, given that public wireless charging is extremely rare at present, you're going to need to carry a usb cable and probably a mains adaptor anyhow, so you'll have to have the necessary equipment for more efficient wired charging anyhow, unless the only place you ever charge is on these particular trains. Anyhow, it just grates with me that a new source of inefficiency is being introduced, in this case actually powered by diesel fuel, for a very marginal convenience.
 

gazthomas

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The big upside on a train is that you don't need to carry anything around to charge. At home it's probably fairly pointless, when out and about is where it has value.
In my mind the problem is the phone rather than the train, why this capability needs to be built into trains due to a design/capability flaw in mobile phones is beyond me
 

Bletchleyite

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Anyhow, it just grates with me that a new source of inefficiency is being introduced, in this case actually powered by diesel fuel, for a very marginal convenience.

I don't think about 2A at 5VDC is even going to be noticeable on fuel consumption. Swapping the lighting for LEDs probably makes a far greater difference.
 

Bletchleyite

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In my mind the problem is the phone rather than the train, why this capability needs to be built into trains due to a design/capability flaw in mobile phones is beyond me

Because rail travel should be convenient to passengers, and one way it can be convenient is in encouraging the use of mobile devices on board, which one cannot use when driving.
 

samuelmorris

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My car has a wireless phone charger in it, but I've never used it, only my very occasional passengers have. The brand of phone I use (and may well continue to use) doesn't support wireless charging so it's of no benefit to me. Nonetheless I have no issue with it being there on trains. It's convenient for those who can make use of it, why not? As said, the inefficiency of this versus the way trains are powered in general is miniscule. The regen on a train tripping out for a few seconds just once due to wheelslip would probably dwarf the efficiency losses of having wireless charging fitted to the train for an entire day of use.
 

gazthomas

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Because rail travel should be convenient to passengers, and one way it can be convenient is in encouraging the use of mobile devices on board, which one cannot use when driving.
So why don't all trains have catering or for that matter toilets?
 

Bletchleyite

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I would venture that on any given train (certainly local train) far more people are using a mobile phone which is a bit low on battery than use either the toilets or purchase food or drink.
 

mmh

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The big upside on a train is that you don't need to carry anything around to charge. At home it's probably fairly pointless, when out and about is where it has value.

My opinion of wireless phone charging is the opposite, it's convenient in private locations, not public ones.

At home, in your car, at an office desk it's convenient. Places you'll be for hours on end and you have no qualms about leaving it for hours. A train table with charging hotspots seems a terrible idea.

Another example of just because you can do something doesn't mean you should to my mind, I'm afraid.
 

gazthomas

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Adding wireless charging doesn't reduce passenger capacity. Those other things do.
My point wasn't about capacity it was about why wireless charging should take precedence over other forms of comfort not afforded to drivers. Trains are transport not your front lounge!
 

Bletchleyite

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My opinion of wireless phone charging is the opposite, it's convenient in private locations, not public ones.

At home, in your car, at an office desk it's convenient.

But in those locations it's not a great benefit - I have chargers with cables in all the private locations where I want to charge my phone - one in the kitchen, one in the bedroom and one in the car.

Places you'll be for hours on end and you have no qualms about leaving it for hours.

Like a several-hour train journey, for instance?
 

mmh

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Nonetheless I have no issue with it being there on trains. It's convenient for those who can make use of it, why not?

"I need to charge my phone..."

We really don't need another way for mobile devices to cause annoyance and arguments on trains.
 

Bletchleyite

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"I need to charge my phone..."

We really don't need another way for mobile devices to cause annoyance and arguments on trains.

Pendolinos only have sockets on the tables. Despite this I do not believe I have ever seen an argument over whether someone could charge it or not.
 

samuelmorris

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My point wasn't about capacity it was about why wireless charging should take precedence over other forms of comfort not afforded to drivers. Trains are transport not your front lounge!
It doesn't take precedence over any of the other forms of comfort. Where is it suggested that it does? That it may exist on trains without toilets does not mean it has taken precedence over them, it means wireless charging was practical/appropriate to install and toilets were not.

It's entirely possible to have brought your phone and forgot your charger. I tend not to be as gaumless as that but it happens to plenty of people. With the advent of popular phones like the iphone supporting wireless charging, having them on the train could prove very useful to anybody that finds themselves in that predicament. The elephant in the room of course is the fact that even the plug sockets on trains are very often out of use. The reliability of wireless charging points is yet to be proven - I have no reason to suspect it'll be any better.
 

gazthomas

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It doesn't take precedence over any of the other forms of comfort. Where is it suggested that it does? That it may exist on trains without toilets does not mean it has taken precedence over them, it means wireless charging was practical/appropriate to install and toilets were not.

It's entirely possible to have brought your phone and forgot your charger. I tend not to be as gaumless as that but it happens to plenty of people. With the advent of popular phones like the iphone supporting wireless charging, having them on the train could prove very useful to anybody that finds themselves in that predicament. The elephant in the room of course is the fact that even the plug sockets on trains are very often out of use. The reliability of wireless charging points is yet to be proven - I have no reason to suspect it'll be any better.
But where is there a human right that says you must have access to phone charging?
 

samuelmorris

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But where is there a human right that says you must have access to phone charging?
There isn't. Nor is there one that says you must have catering on your conveyance. You aren't going to starve to death in the duration of a journey (insert TOC delay gag here). If you want food/drink you could buy it before/after your journey and take it with you.
 

gazthomas

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There isn't. Nor is there one that says you must have catering on your conveyance. You aren't going to starve to death in the duration of a journey (insert TOC delay gag here). If you want food/drink you could buy it before/after your journey and take it with you.
That's my point
 

MML

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If enough passengers bring onboard wireless charging phones, couldn't they be used to recharge the batteries of the hybrid 230 ?
Might be enough to reach the buffer stops with a stiff breeze and downhill gradient.
 

Cambrian359

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It's not about human rights, it's about providing convenient features which encourage passengers to use the train.
Exactly!
Anyone who doesn’t approve can simply not use the feature!
"I need to charge my phone..."

We really don't need another way for mobile devices to cause annoyance and arguments on trains.
I’ve tapped people on the shoulder a few times asking them to plug in my charger at their table seat when I’ve been sat behind them ,I’ve yet to have a punch up !
 

gazthomas

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Doesn't make any sense to me I'm afraid. Why is there an issue with putting wireless chargers on trains? I'm not sure I see what the problem is.
There isn't a point. I think that punctuality and reliability should take precedence over convenience. And in the case of the 230s and for that matter most trains more focus is required on these areas than novelties such as wireless phone charging
 

samuelmorris

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There isn't a point. I think that punctuality and reliability should take precedence over convenience. And in the case of the 230s and for that matter most trains more focus is required on these areas than novelties such as wireless phone charging
I can't see it having an effect on reliability / the rate at which faults with the necessary equipment get resolved, it's just a quick win solution that can be added to help with customer satisfaction and maybe offset the complaints about service reliability a little.
 

gazthomas

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I can't see it having an effect on reliability / the rate at which faults with the necessary equipment get resolved, it's just a quick win solution that can be added to help with customer satisfaction and maybe offset the complaints about service reliability a little.
I disagree, in the case of 230s that don't have a faultless reliability record it is a distraction from getting the basics right. I'm sorry if I sound negative, I'm all for Wifi, wired charging, wireless charging, streamed media, etc. etc. but until the basics are being delivered, namely no cancellations these technologies are simply a distraction
 

edwin_m

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Is a wireless charging pad likely to be more reliable, and therefore less hassle for the operator, than a USB socket?
 
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