A good service operates on all lines

AnkleBoots · 15 Jul 2019

"A good service operates on all lines" is often heard on the London Underground.

For me this seems to be an incorrect use of the "present simple" tense, which is concerning when so many learners of English are in London.

Agree?!

www.ef.co.uk/english-resources/english-grammar/simple-present-tense said:
The simple present tense is one of several forms of present tense in English. It is used to describe habits, unchanging situations, general truths, and fixed arrangements.
...
Be careful! The simple present is not used to express actions happening now.

RailUK Forums

rebmcr · 16 Jul 2019

I've always heard "A good service is operating on all [lines/other lines]."

70014IronDuke · 16 Jul 2019

The continuous present ie "is operating" is the correct or 'normal usage' form, I'd argue based on the reasoning that it's a temporary process - often, in the case of the London underground - 'very' temporary.

Some verbs in normal British usage do not have a continuous form (eg see, smell) - they would normally be 'can see', 'can smell' to indicate an action now - but international usage, or misuage, has introduced a continuous form.

Busaholic · 16 Jul 2019

An incorrect use of the adjective 'good' concerns me far more. Good for whom, precisely?

rebmcr · 17 Jul 2019

Busaholic said:
An incorrect use of the adjective 'good' concerns me far more. Good for whom, precisely?

I think it's being used as a noun here; i.e. the label of a category.

ijmad · 17 Jul 2019

Here's a PDF from an FOI that explains exactly what London Underground consider 'good service' for the District, Jubilee and Victoria lines:

http://foi.tfl.gov.uk/FOI-1233-1718/FOI-1233-1718.pdf

Mojo · 17 Jul 2019

rebmcr said:
I've always heard "A good service is operating on all [lines/other lines]."

I agree.

xotGD · 17 Jul 2019

But the service isn't 'good' it is barely acceptable, with passengers rammed in like sardines in a tin.

Mag_seven · 17 Jul 2019

AnkleBoots said:
"A good service operates on all lines" is often heard on the London Underground.

Is it? Like others have said I only ever hear "a good service is operating on all underground lines" or if there is disruption on some lines "a good service is operating on all other underground lines".

ijmad · 17 Jul 2019

xotGD said:
But the service isn't 'good' it is barely acceptable, with passengers rammed in like sardines in a tin.

Good is more about whether the trains are rolling, not passenger crush loading.

Busaholic · 18 Jul 2019

rebmcr said:
I think it's being used as a noun here; i.e. the label of a category.

So rather like the words goodfellow and goodwill, you're suggesting? Perhaps 'fair service' might be more appropriate, or, rather, fairservice, like fairweather. My own definition of the meaning of 'good service' would be 'service as you'd expect', which in turn begs many questions.

Ethano92 · 18 Jul 2019

xotGD said:
But the service isn't 'good' it is barely acceptable, with passengers rammed in like sardines in a tin.

When the Victoria line is running its usual optimum with the next train halfway down the platform when the last has barely left, and it's still crush loaded with many not able to board, you can't categorise that as a bad service. You even get the usual "terrible overpriced service" passengers sympathise with the Victoria line exclusively. What more can they do?

172006 · 18 Jul 2019

Mag_seven said:
Is it? Like others have said I only ever hear "a good service is operating on all underground lines" or if there is disruption on some lines "a good service is operating on all other underground lines"

I've often heard "A good service is operating on all London Underground lines. All other lines are operating a good service."
'All other lines' might seem to include National Rail, but I've heard that announcement when there was disruption to National Rail services in London.

rebmcr · 18 Jul 2019

172006 said:
I've often heard "A good service is operating on all London Underground lines. All other lines are operating a good service."
'All other lines' might seem to include National Rail, but I've heard that announcement when there was disruption to National Rail services in London.

It means non-Underground TfL lines such as Overground, DLR, ~~Elizabeth~~ TfL Rail, trams, and cable car.

172006 · 18 Jul 2019

rebmcr said:
It means non-Underground TfL lines such as Overground, DLR, ~~Elizabeth~~ TfL Rail, trams, and cable car.

I know, but the announcement doesn't specify that.

Scotty · 18 Jul 2019

172006 said:
I know, but the announcement doesn't specify that.

It's an announcement from TFL...

PeterC · 18 Jul 2019

Scotty said:
It's an announcement from TFL...

Do you think that the general public understand the difference between Overground and "overground" as a generic term for the ex British Rail lines?

bluegoblin7 · 18 Jul 2019

PeterC said:
Do you think that the general public understand the difference between Overground and "overground" as a generic term for the ex British Rail lines?

In my front line coal face experience, yes.

Taunton · 18 Jul 2019

At Euston Northern Line City Branch southbound at 20.00 two days ago the next train was in 1 minute, second train … 18 minutes.

That was of course billed as a Good Service.

ijmad · 18 Jul 2019

bluegoblin7 said:
In my front line coal face experience, yes.

I think London commuters have learned the difference over the last 12 years. Overground or overland is still used to describe National Rail services, but I lots of people know that the TfL Orange Overground is a special and different thing.

Scotty · 18 Jul 2019

PeterC said:
Do you think that the general public understand the difference between Overground and "overground" as a generic term for the ex British Rail lines?

Yes, I do. Announcements differentiate between Overground and National Rail.

Mojo · 18 Jul 2019

172006 said:
I've often heard "A good service is operating on all London Underground lines. All other lines are operating a good service."
'All other lines' might seem to include National Rail, but I've heard that announcement when there was disruption to National Rail services in London.

Shouldn’t say that, it should either be “all lines,” or “all other lines” if one or more lines isn’t running.

This includes Underground, DLR, Overground, TfL Rail and Trams. National Rail services are not included, although amusingly the controversial Citymapper App includes all Tocs in the East & South East in its definition of “Lines,” displaying an alert button to load the disruption screen. Not ideal for customers as I don’t think I’ve ever seen a time where there has been no disruption to at least one Toc.

There wouldn’t usually be station announcements for other National Rail disruption although in exceptional circumstances such as major disruption affecting a London terminal station they may make an announcement.

Ethano92 · 18 Jul 2019

PeterC said:
Do you think that the general public understand the difference between Overground and "overground" as a generic term for the ex British Rail lines?

I don't believe the orange lines on the tube map are formally referred to as Overground anywhere. Station announcements, train announcements, the tube map and other publicity seem to always refer to it as "London Overground" (except the word overground in the roundel. So people can distinguish between the London Overground by TFL and other above ground national rail routes.

Hadders · 19 Jul 2019

ijmad said:
I think London commuters have learned the difference over the last 12 years. Overground or overland is still used to describe National Rail services, but I lots of people know that the TfL Orange Overground is a special and different thing.

***Pendant Alert***

London Overground is a National Rail service....

rebmcr · 19 Jul 2019

PeterC said:
Do you think that the general public understand the difference between Overground and "overground" as a generic term for the ex British Rail lines?

bluegoblin7 said:
In my front line coal face experience, yes.

I have a friend who lives in West Drayton and refers to GWR services as "the overground".

bluegoblin7 · 19 Jul 2019

Which is not the same as London Overground is it? Just because the terms are used colloquially to mean different things it doesn’t mean that that’s the meaning conveyed in an official announcement by TfL. Again, front line coal face experience tells me that people don’t think Overground means other National Rail TOCs in terms of delays.

Busaholic · 19 Jul 2019

Hadders said:
***Pendant Alert***

London Overground is a National Rail service....

Sorry, no necklaces spotted!!

Scotty · 19 Jul 2019

Hadders said:
***Pendant Alert***

London Overground is a National Rail service....

Pedant...

Busaholic · 19 Jul 2019

Scotty said:
Pedant...

Hence my post.

172006 · 22 Jul 2019

Today the announcement in Euston, after describing the disruptions to London Overground, said there's a good service on all other London Underground lines.

A good service operates on all lines

Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Established Member

Forum Staff

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Forum Staff

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member