Indeed they do. Promising signs that they will as the last four days have seen one, zero, zero, and one unit restricted to diesel.
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Class 800 upgrades to address performance and reliability issues
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Indeed they do. Promising signs that they will as the last four days have seen one, zero, zero, and one unit restricted to diesel.
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Clarence Yard
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GWR don’t have any real technical input into these units so it’s up to Hitachi to solve the many and varied faults that make them diesel only.
To be fair, Hitachi has recently put a greater emphasis on eliminating the individual “diesel only” faults on the affected units in a more organised and timely manner. As at earlier today, only one 5 car unit was running around diesel only.
To be fair, Hitachi has recently put a greater emphasis on eliminating the individual “diesel only” faults on the affected units in a more organised and timely manner. As at earlier today, only one 5 car unit was running around diesel only.
Thunderer
Member
Thats good news, its good to see an improvement as Saturday I caught the 19:08 service from Bristol Parkway to Carmarthen and 802019+802006 arrived at Parkway in diesel mode, so I assumed they'd worked from London like that? My early morning 800's that I caught to Bristol earlier in the day "panned up" as soon as they arrived at Parkway.
Westbound the instruction is they changeover before Bristol Parkway unless reversing at Parkway or proceeding on to Stoke Gifford. It has been that way since the wires were brought into use; and will be until a much more significant section is energised west of Parkway.
I understand the reasoning for this is to give the engines a slightly longer period to wind up to optimum running temps on idle rather than routinely firing up and going almost immediately to full power to depart the station.
Railperf
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That would make sense - eliminating unneccesary diesel running on the 100mph+ sections of main line is going to improve diesel reliability and availability for where it is really needed.
supervc-10
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Are they able to run on electricity with the diesels 'warming up' as it were?
Again I’m not formally trained on IET traction; my professional interest is only in 16x and 387s - but I always got the impression that with the planned fully-automated changeovers what you suggest was at least in the specification - the train would “know” it was approaching a changeover and fire up the GUs a few miles beforehand to enable a seamless transition from AC to Diesel operation.
My last (and so far only) IET cab ride was when they were very new to us; and the power changeover (at Maidenhead) on that occasion was completely manual - the GUs didn’t fire up until commanded to by the driver. I didn’t ask at the time if that was the normal way of doing things because frankly everything was quite new, and I didn’t want to sound like I was questioning what the driver was doing!
@Mintona is a lot more conversant in the ways of the IET than I am - perhaps they can lend some insight as to whether it’s all automated yet; and if the GUs fire up automatically beforehand...
Mintona
Established Member
None of the changeovers I do are automatic: Bristol Parkway, Chippenham, Steventon, Didcot East. The driver has to press the diesel button to fire up the GUs. I will add though that the latter three have balise protection that will lower the pantograph if the driver fails to for whatever reason.
None of the above locations were originally supposed to be changeover points so they haven’t had Automatic Power Changeover (APCO) installed. I don’t sign the Berks & Hants route so I’m not sure if APCO is used at Newbury where the wires end or if it is still manual there too.
As for the GUs running when on electric, yes it is possible, and can be quite useful in the winter when the temperatures drop. Keeps the heat running through the system for when you need them on the diesel sections.
That’s why I’m glad our trains are (for now) Diesel or Electric!
Thanks for your insight bud.
irish_rail
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No APCO at Newbury either, unless of course the driver forgets to pan down that is , when it does (and has) intervened. I presume the same to be true at Didcot etc etc .
Envoy
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I had yet another 5 car last Saturday - complete with filthy windows on the first run of the day. I note that a lug that attaches the seat to the floor has been positioned in the narrow space on the wall side. This means that when I stretch out my leg, the foot is obstructed by this lug. Looks like another case of bad design as surely this lug could have been put on the other side of the vertical beam from the seat thus leaving a flat space where the obstruction is now? See photo:>
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If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please create a thread (if there isn't one already) or use an existing thread (if there is one).
For example, if you wish to discuss experiences of travelling on the trains there is a thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/experiences-of-travelling-on-class-800-802-iets.186341/
If someone goes off topic and you wish to reply to it, please do not continue the off topic discussion but instead create a new thread. Please report the first off topic post (using the report button) and let us know the details.
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Experienced my first problem for a while today. 1600 Bristol TM- Padd started late, 5 coaches locked out of use, no PA. Steadily lost time all the way to Swindon (running on diesel the whole way) where finally put out of its misery and cancelled. The diesel sounded dodgy to me - very noisy and over-revving the whole time
Mintona
Established Member
Good run tonight on 1B81. According to realtimetrains at least, sub 21 minutes from Swindon to Bristol Parkway. I’m not sure what the fastest recorded time is, I’m sure railperf has a log somewhere.
TractiveEffort
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No chance it was over revving, the engines will shutdown if the ECU detects overspeed.
Railperf
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21 min dead is our fastest to date
samuelmorris
Established Member
20m47 according to Raildar, but then that assumes the clocks at Swindon and Bristol Parkway agree and that the trigger points are in the same place. Not sure how accurate this makes their times in practice, but without having a human on each service timing it, probably the best you can expect.
Mintona
Established Member
I’ll take that then 
it felt like a good one, but it didn’t occur to me to check my watch when I left Swindon so I can’t say for definite what the time was.
it felt like a good one, but it didn’t occur to me to check my watch when I left Swindon so I can’t say for definite what the time was.Good run today from 1W19, 09:21 Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street today. Having left Paddington 14 late and omitting the booked call at Slough, it managed a right time arrival at Foregate, managing to do:
Paddington to Oxford in 45 minutes
Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill in 1h 50m
Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street in 1h 56m
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20971/2019/07/18/advanced
Shows the potential to speed up the current schedules in December, especially between Paddington and Oxford. Sadly all the good work en-route can often be undone at Didcot East Junction if there's anything else in the way, so good to see this one get a clear run.
Paddington to Oxford in 45 minutes
Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill in 1h 50m
Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street in 1h 56m
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20971/2019/07/18/advanced
Shows the potential to speed up the current schedules in December, especially between Paddington and Oxford. Sadly all the good work en-route can often be undone at Didcot East Junction if there's anything else in the way, so good to see this one get a clear run.
I’ll take that then
After some digging into internal sources we’ve ascertained that the time achieved on 1B81 from Swindon to Bristol Parkway was 20m 35s +/- 5 seconds.
Railperf
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Which unit was it? I recall understanding from the 21 minute run that a faster time was eminently possible. It is no surprise that the 800/802s are surpassing even the very fastest HST times from the 1980s.
Mintona
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It was 802010 & 802020. There was more time to be taken as well, three places could’ve been faster. Be interesting to see how close to 20 minutes it could actually get.
Railperf
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Where do you think it could have been faster and by how much - in those locations?
I note few drivers take Wootton Basset Jn at the full 70 - more often in the low 60s.
Are there many places where you are likely to be easing for double yellows - i.e late level crossing gate closure - junction route clearance etc?
I guess platform choice at BPY is also a factor. Is the platform starter usually clear on arrival?
Mintona
Established Member
Wootton Bassett Jn for one. We went over it at about 62-63 for comfort reasons, it’s a bit bumpy at 70. Approaching Westerleigh Jn is another, there’s a 100mph speed limit which we were down quite early for, could’ve left it later. But it’s quite common to be held there for something coming down from Yate, so we tend to approach slower than we could, in expectation of the double yellow (which didn’t come yesterday). And coming into Bristol Parkway there was a red on the end of the platform so had to relatively crawl in so as not to upset the TPWS. The platform starter is usually red there.
It’s hard to say how much faster it could’ve been. Probably another 20-30 seconds I guess.
Railperf
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I am guessing the approach to and station stop at Parkway where most time can be lost or gained. The 62mph through Wootton Basset would only lose a few seconds. That's a horrible junction to traverse as it feels so bumpy. As a passenger you do feel like the train could derail there. It's noisy too.
Sounds like a very fast time and may take the perfect set of circumstances to beat. Was the cruise control in use?
Mintona
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No, I don’t like using it. It cruises at 124 and I was late so I thought the extra 1mph would help. I can’t remember the last time I used it to be honest.
irish_rail
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Personally I've never used it and never will. Totally unreliable on any kind of gradient and as Mintona says keeps you below 125mph anyway...
Railperf
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Does anyone know if the ATP braking curves for Class 800/802 reflect the superior braking performance? And if so...why do 800s crawl to a red signal no faster than an HST?
Mintona
Established Member
A very small number are different, the vast majority are still the same as HSTs.
irish_rail
Established Member
Regarding the red signal part of your question that comes down to professional driving. No point rushing onto a red that you will be stopping at anyway, better to come on slowly in the hope it steps up.
Some of the ATP speeds are different for example reading platform 7 can be approached at 15mph on an IET compared with 10mph on a HST (still ludicrously restrictive but hey ho!)
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