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LNER December 2019 Timetable Changes

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TheBigD

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #2 originally in this thread.

Looking at LNER...

Extra Lincoln services...
0806 Kings Cross - Lincoln
2025 Lincoln - Kings Cross

Extra Edinburgh services...
0856 Newcastle - Edinburgh
0830, 1230, 1430 Kings Cross - Newcastle extended through to Edinburgh
1225, 1625 Newcastle - Kings Cross start from Edinburgh at 1100 & 1500

Extra Harrogate services...
0733, 0933, 1133, 1333, 1533 Kings Cross - Leeds extended through to Harrogate
1015, 1215, 1415, 1615, 1815 Leeds - Kings Cross start from Harrogate at 0936, 1136, 1336, 1536, 1736
 
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TheBigD

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Looking at LNER Sunday services...

Sunday Lincoln services...

0933 KGX-LCN (1127)
1133 KGX-LCN (1323)
1435 KGX-LCN (1620)
1533 KGX-LCN (1735)
Plus the current 1906 KGX-LCN (2101)

1055 LCN-KGX (1250)
1223 LCN-KGX (1416)
1420 LCN-KGX (1616)
1650 LCN-KGX (1857)
1800 LCN-KGX (1955)

Sunday Harrogate services...

0903, 1103, 1303, 1503, 1703, Kings Cross - Leeds services extended through to Harrogate, plus the current 1803 Kings Cross - Harrogate.

1005, 1205, 1405, 1615, 1845 Leeds - King's Cross start at Harrogate at 0915, 1115, 1315, 1536,1802, plus the current 1705 Harrogate - Kings Cross.
 
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Ianno87

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #2 originally in this thread.

Looking at LNER...

Extra Lincoln services...
0806 Kings Cross - Lincoln
2025 Lincoln - Kings Cross

That strikes me as a bit odd (unless some more schedules are still to appear).

Does the unit sit at Lincoln all day or something? Or go to Doncaster IEP depot/ECS to Newark?

Edit: The 0806 appears to return as an 1127 back to King's Cross.
 

TheBigD

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That strikes me as a bit odd (unless some more schedules are still to appear).

Does the unit sit at Lincoln all day or something? Or go to Doncaster IEP depot/ECS to Newark?

Edit: The 0806 appears to return as an 1127 back to King's Cross.

The current Mondays to Saturdays 4 Kings Cross -Newark (and return) services should be extended to/from Lincoln from 9th September. The 0806/2025 services are planned to start in December, along with the new Sunday services. From September to December the 1127 ex Lincoln and 1606 ex Kings Cross are ecs to/from Doncaster depot, from December they will instead operate the new 0806/2025 services.

A
 

Class 170101

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I am surprised that neither LNER or Northern seem to run a service between Leeds and Doncaster to connect with the last service between Doncaster and Kings Cross.
 

30907

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I am surprised that neither LNER or Northern seem to run a service between Leeds and Doncaster to connect with the last service between Doncaster and Kings Cross.
Maybe with Azumas based at Doncaster that might change?
 

Andyh82

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The Harrogate services get a long layover at Harrogate (as they will have to do to match up the 2 hourly arrivals/departures at Leeds)
 

Ianno87

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The current Mondays to Saturdays 4 Kings Cross -Newark (and return) services should be extended to/from Lincoln from 9th September. The 0806/2025 services are planned to start in December, along with the new Sunday services. From September to December the 1127 ex Lincoln and 1606 ex Kings Cross are ecs to/from Doncaster depot, from December they will instead operate the new 0806/2025 services.

A

Ah, makes sense - thanks!
 

philjo

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It is a pity that the new 0806 Kings Cross to Lincoln does not call at Stevenage.
All of the other York/Newark/Lincoln stoppers call at Stevenage. There is currently a 1 hour gap in northbound services from Stevenage (0755 to 0855 both Leeds services) The current York/Newark stoppers from Stevenage provide a convenient 16 minute same platform connection at Peterborough into the Edinburgh services for passengers going to stations north of York.


Looking at options for travelling back from Yorkshire on a Sunday, there are currently no direct services from York to Stevenage during the daytime on Sundays (except 1st/last services). It would be useful to have at least one stopper starting at York on Sunday afternoons.
 

Ianno87

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It would not then be 'off peak'.

For an Any Permitted, yes. (Not for a GC-only Off-Peak)

That's an interesting one (if it indeed goes in that path which appears free from inspection), as LNER presumably set the time restriction (worded as "not before 07.59").
 

800002

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For an Any Permitted, yes. (Not for a GC-only Off-Peak)

That's an interesting one (if it indeed goes in that path which appears free from inspection), as LNER presumably set the time restriction (worded as "not before 07.59").

Okay, i'll bite... GC-only Off Peak? (without going looking, I don't know what you mean).

I guess it is a toss up between booking another 'peak' service and the potential additional revenue (however it is calculated) from walk-up's while still maintaining the AP, slightly increased, peak fares / over the selling out of their off peak AP's and walk up off peaks. (if you know what imean??!!
 

Bletchleyite

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For an Any Permitted, yes. (Not for a GC-only Off-Peak)

That's an interesting one (if it indeed goes in that path which appears free from inspection), as LNER presumably set the time restriction (worded as "not before 07.59").

It wouldn't be beyond the wit of man for GC to ask LNER to put an exception in for them if they want it. There are tons of examples of that around the fares system.
 

TheBigD

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It is a pity that the new 0806 Kings Cross to Lincoln does not call at Stevenage.
All of the other York/Newark/Lincoln stoppers call at Stevenage. There is currently a 1 hour gap in northbound services from Stevenage (0755 to 0855 both Leeds services) The current York/Newark stoppers from Stevenage provide a convenient 16 minute same platform connection at Peterborough into the Edinburgh services for passengers going to stations north of York.


Looking at options for travelling back from Yorkshire on a Sunday, there are currently no direct services from York to Stevenage during the daytime on Sundays (except 1st/last services). It would be useful to have at least one stopper starting at York on Sunday afternoons.

Some of the northbound Sunday services miss stops out as well, 1435 KGX-LCN misses both Peterborough and Grantham out. Southbound, the 1650 ex Lincoln has an 8 minute wait at Newark. I guess it's as a result of having to fit around existing services.

The Sunday service seems to be a bit of a miss mash anyway. Various oddities like a 70 minute southbound gap from Leeds in the afternoon (1505 to 1615), random stopping patterns, the lack of the York/Newark stoppers and an all day half hourly Leeds service, all due to extra services on the Edinburgh/Newcastle run and not enough rolling stock to do both.

Doubt much will change until it's all rewritten in 2020, 2021, 2022 or some later date.
 

800002

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...makes me wonder what happens to the current 0806 King's Cross-Sunderland Grand Central.... https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/Y40041/2019-09-17

Logical thing to do would be to shift it to the 0757 path, which seems free.
Looking a bit closer, the 0757 path is fine to York, but it won't be able to keep stops in at Thirsk / Northallerton - without following the 0800 (1S07) from KGX after York. That sounds like, to me, extending journey times to maintain same time arrival.

Northern haven't been published yet, so I wouldn't commit myself to that entirely right now.

Also, without the publication of the thameslink, I wouldn't be sure of pathing a 0757 path through the two track sections down to Peterborough.

EDIT: happy to be corrected! In the current timetable I think there is a path in front of the 0800 Kings Cross - Edinburgh, at 0757 - all the way to Newark Flat Crossing, at which point is bumped by the EMT 2L56 0836 Lincloln Central - Leicester, Xing at 0905. Again though, EMT remain to be published for Dec 19. 1S07 is over Newark FC at 0910.
 
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ainsworth74

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Okay, i'll bite... GC-only Off Peak? (without going looking, I don't know what you mean).
Grand Central price a set of walk-up fares that are restricted to only be used GC services only. For holders of a GC only Off-Peak ticket the 0806 (or a potential 0757) is permitted as GC only restrict two southbound (morning arrivals into London from Sunderland and Bradford) and two northbound (afternoon departures to Sunderland and Bradford). Otherwise all GC services for holders of GC Only walk up tickets are Off-Peak.
 

800002

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Grand Central price a set of walk-up fares that are restricted to only be used GC services only. For holders of a GC only Off-Peak ticket the 0806 (or a potential 0757) is permitted as GC only restrict two southbound (morning arrivals into London from Sunderland and Bradford) and two northbound (afternoon departures to Sunderland and Bradford). Otherwise all GC services for holders of GC Only walk up tickets are Off-Peak.

That's brilliant - thanks.
 

takno

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Looking a bit closer, the 0757 path is fine to York, but it won't be able to keep stops in at Thirsk / Northallerton - without following the 0800 (1S07) from KGX after York. That sounds like, to me, extending journey times to maintain same time arrival.

Northern haven't been published yet, so I wouldn't commit myself to that entirely right now.

Also, without the publication of the thameslink, I wouldn't be sure of pathing a 0757 path through the two track sections down to Peterborough.

EDIT: happy to be corrected! In the current timetable I think there is a path in front of the 0800 Kings Cross - Edinburgh, at 0757 - all the way to Newark Flat Crossing, at which point is bumped by the EMT 2L56 0836 Lincloln Central - Leicester, Xing at 0905. Again though, EMT remain to be published for Dec 19. 1S07 is over Newark FC at 0910.
Could presumably be overtaken at Thirsk, giving a rather smaller time penalty.
 

800002

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Could presumably be overtaken at Thirsk, giving a rather smaller time penalty.
That's true, it could. Would need a minute or two more headstart though I would think, if avoiding slow line running were to be possible.
 

Failed Unit

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The current Mondays to Saturdays 4 Kings Cross -Newark (and return) services should be extended to/from Lincoln from 9th September. The 0806/2025 services are planned to start in December, along with the new Sunday services. From September to December the 1127 ex Lincoln and 1606 ex Kings Cross are ecs to/from Doncaster depot, from December they will instead operate the new 0806/2025 services.

A
Is that confirmed? It is still not possible to book beyond Newark yet.
 

Failed Unit

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...makes me wonder what happens to the current 0806 King's Cross-Sunderland Grand Central.... https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/Y40041/2019-09-17

Logical thing to do would be to shift it to the 0757 path, which seems free.

I know it would be an odd thing to do but I wonder if it could be possible to have it following the Lincoln service at minimum headway and pass it at Peterborough (as the Lincoln service doesn't stop at Stevenage which again is odd). If they are both staying I don't know why they wouldn't keep the Sunderland service as is and run the Lincoln at 0808. I guess we will see.

It is a pity the Lincoln service won't stop at Stevenage, as others say it gives a good connection to the North. The 2025 Lincoln - London is an odd time, I guess it is to fill that big gap late in the evening.
 

Ianno87

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I know it would be an odd thing to do but I wonder if it could be possible to have it following the Lincoln service at minimum headway and pass it at Peterborough (as the Lincoln service doesn't stop at Stevenage which again is odd). If they are both staying I don't know why they wouldn't keep the Sunderland service as is and run the Lincoln at 0808. I guess we will see.

It is a pity the Lincoln service won't stop at Stevenage, as others say it gives a good connection to the North. The 2025 Lincoln - London is an odd time, I guess it is to fill that big gap late in the evening.

No, the "xx09" King's Cross path (behind the Lincoln) is where the Brighton-Cambridge Thameslink pulls out onto the Fast Line at Finsbury Park. This is then followed by the xx12 King's Cross-Ely fast, which is then followed across Welwyn Viaduct by the King's Cross-Cambridge stopper off the Slow line at Digswell.
 

Failed Unit

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No, the "xx09" King's Cross path (behind the Lincoln) is where the Brighton-Cambridge Thameslink pulls out onto the Fast Line at Finsbury Park. This is then followed by the xx12 King's Cross-Ely fast, which is then followed across Welwyn Viaduct by the King's Cross-Cambridge stopper off the Slow line at Digswell.
OK, was clutching at straws why the Lincoln services doesn't stop at Stevenage.

I suspect we will see the GC service at 0757 as you suggest
 

cuccir

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1225, 1625 Newcastle - Kings Cross start from Edinburgh at 1100 & 1500

In a way this is a bit of a shame. These two services can be useful when the ECML is disrupted between Edinburgh and Newcastle to help keep things moving further south.
 

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Also surprised about the lack of a 22:30 Kings Cross to Leeds thought that gap might have been closed by now.
 

ainsworth74

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I can appreciate that there is an interaction between Grand Central and LNER's timetable but we were well off-topic into discussing the minutia of Grand Central's timetable so I've split that discussion out into it's own thread which can be found here. Please try and stick broadly to LNER's timetable in this thread.
 

800002

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I can appreciate that there is an interaction between Grand Central and LNER's timetable but we were well off-topic into discussing the minutia of Grand Central's timetable so I've split that discussion out into it's own thread which can be found here. Please try and stick broadly to LNER's timetable in this thread.
Sorry boss - My bad.
 
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