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Northern Class 195: Initial Diagrams

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Bovverboy

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Today (Thursday 11/07/19) 195119 has been on Barrow/Windermere Circuit 2 and 195116 on Circuit 3. As for Circuit 1, 156488 worked the 1029 Airport to Barrow but seems to have been replaced at Barrow by 195117. I don't know what unit worked Circuit 4, sorry.

Other units on the Barrow/Windermere circuit have been 156469, 158861, and 158907.

Circuit 5 was 195120 and Circuit 6 195114 - at least, when I saw them. I don't know what doubled up with 195114 in either of the peaks (if anything), the displays at Oxford Road were indicating that the 1516 Lime Street to Manchester Airport had been cancelled. In the event it seems it was only cancelled Oxford Road-Airport-Piccadilly. The third set on the Liv/Airport Circuit was 156423+150101.
 
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195119 is on circuit 3 from the diagrams posted a few weeks ago

Next working 1329 Manchester Airport to Barrow
 
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Bovverboy

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Bletchleyite said:
Are the diagrams the same during the Acton Grange works or will they change? I'm mostly interested in this Sunday.
Click to expand...

The routine up to now on Sundays has been for the 195s to work only Manchester Airport to Barrow/Windermere (and not Manchester Airport to Liverpool) and the ones on Barrow/Windermere won't necessarily be on the diagrams as indicated in post #116 of this thread, but there will be some out, for sure. There are seven diagrams, in total, some will be covered by 195s, some won't.
 
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JonathanH

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All three Liverpool Lime Street - Warrington Central - Manchester Airport cycles reported as 195s today.

1Y91 1934 Barrow-in-Furness to Manchester Airport / 1C50 2210 Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness was 195120 on its own tonight but that might be because the return is cancelled north of Preston due to a driver shortage.

Is it still just 195102/14/16-21 in passenger service?
 
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Bovverboy

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Alasdair Clift said:
Has anyone got any idea which diagrams the 195s are working today? Particularly on the Windermere branch?
Click to expand...

Well they certainly won't be working 1733 Manchester Airport-Windermere (after Preston), 2006/2053 Windermere-Oxenholme, 2028/2118 Oxenholme-Windermere, or 2144 Windermere-Preston.
All those journeys are coming up as cancelled. (Driver Shortage).

So your only chances now are
1) the one which has just left Preston, heading for the branch;
2) the one which kicks off as 1133 from Manchester Airport;
3) the one which kicks off as 1433 from Manchester Airport.

Last Sunday the 1133 was a 195, the others weren't.
 
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Bovverboy

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Bovverboy said:
Last Sunday the 1133 was a 195, the others weren't.
Click to expand...

Sorry, correction. It was Sunday 7/7/19 when the 1133 was a 195 and the other diagrams weren't. (The 1733 was, too, but, as stated above, it's cancelled after Preston today).
I've no record of what worked what last Sunday (14/7/19).
 
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Bovverboy

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With reference to the Sunday 195 diagrams as given by mikemcniven in post #116 of this thread.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/48204667011/
An additional duty is:
0840 Barrow - Manchester Airport
1133 Manchester Airport - Windermere
1358 Windermere - Oxenholme
1423 Oxenholme - Windermere
1449 Windermere - Oxenholme
1535 Oxenholme - Windermere
1606 Windermere - Manchester Airport
1833 Manchester Airport - Barrow
This appears to be as regular a 195 duty as the other three, the rule seems to be that if four 195s are available, they will go out on those duties. All three of the Barrow starts also finish at Barrow, and the Preston start finishes at Preston. So, on a Sunday, all the 195s currently used in service finish their day at the same stabling point at which they started.
 
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ScottGallagher

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Hi all is there an outside chance of the 1147 Man PIcc to Lancaster being a 195 this Thursday 25th July. As it's a really hot day wanted as much air con as possible from London as none from Lancaster to Millom!!
 
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Bovverboy

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ScottGallagher said:
Hi all is there an outside chance of the 1147 Man PIcc to Lancaster being a 195 this Thursday 25th July. As it's a really hot day wanted as much air con as possible from London as none from Lancaster to Millom!!
Click to expand...

Here are the presumed Mon/Fri diagrams as given by mikemcniven in post #1 of this thread.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/48132399783/
They have proved remarkably accurate, in that I don't think a 195 has been reported being seen on any diagram other than those given. Unfortunately the converse is not the case, the 195s have not proved 100% reliable up to now, and there has very often been a Sprinter covering one or more of the '195' diagrams.
As to whether a 195 will turn up on your train on Thursday, the answer is it's very unlikely. As you'll see the 0725 (Barrow), 0827 (Windermere), 0929 (Barrow) and 1029 (Barrow) departures from Manchester Airport are booked for 195s, but not the 1133 Windermere. (The 0827 Windermere does not stop at Lancaster, you might have had difficulty getting to Barrow off that one anyway). After the 1029 departure from the Airport the next one which could reasonably be a 195 is the 1329.
 
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Bovverboy

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Mogster said:
With this timetable there’s only 1 direct Castlefield - Wigan service between 16:00 - 17:00...
Click to expand...

Mathew S said:
And, yes, there is no direct train from Piccadilly or Oxford Road to Wigan between the 1618 and the 1718. (To be honest, for anyone who needs to travel in that hour the quickest option is a service to Victoria and jump on the 1650/1655 train to Wigan from there).
Click to expand...

There's the 1630 Blackpool, changing at Salford Crescent - is that a no-hoper? I see that changing off the 1700 Blackpool doesn't offer much advantage over waiting for the Southport.
 
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Bovverboy

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Now that 195 workings seem to have settled down for now, perhaps it's time to update the duties as provided by mikemcniven. In the Mon/Fri duties (post #1 of this thread) I am aware of only one minor error, that being that on Circuit 2 the 1147 Windermere to Oxenholme should be shown as reporting number 2C09 rather than 2X09.
The Saturday duties were given in post #116.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/48204666971/
There are a couple of errors, one being that on Circuit 2 the 1943 Barrow to Manchester Airport should be shown as 1934. Also on Circuit 6 the 0613 and 2129 departures from Liverpool should be shown as running to Manchester Airport, and the 0750 and 2249 departures should similarly be shown as being from there.
There is an additional diagram, which has proved to be every bit as much a 195 duty as the others.
0337 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
0709 Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool
1016 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
1316 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
1616 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
1915 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
2224 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
Thanks are due to NWR001, and others, for clarifying some of the above.
 
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Mathew S

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Bovverboy said:
There's the 1630 Blackpool, changing at Salford Crescent - is that a no-hoper? I see that changing off the 1700 Blackpool doesn't offer much advantage over waiting for the Southport.
Click to expand...
If the 1630 Blackpool is on time then, yes, you can change onto the service to Wigan Wallgate at Salford Crescent. Unfortunately, by the time that gets to Salford Crescent your chances of getting a seat are pretty minimal. It's also a relatively right connection that, when I've tried it, has been missed as often as it's been made. Also, the 1637 from Man Vic (which you'd be changing onto) is the slowest of the slow trains to Wigan stopping everywhere on the Atherton line.
So, yeah, it's an option, but it's easy to see why people aren't flocking to it as an alternative to a non-stop (after Ox Road) journey on a 195.
 
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Bovverboy

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The Sunday duties, as were originally thought, were also given in post 116.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/48204667011/
In respect of the duties as given, the only corrections that need to be made are as follows.
Circuit 1: 1851 departure from Barrow runs to Preston, not Manchester Airport, also the 2046 departure is from Preston.
Circuit 2: 1933 Manchester Airport to Barrow should really be shown as 1933 Manchester Airport to Preston and 2046 Preston to Barrow. Northern advertises a through service but in reality any passengers from south of Preston who want to continue are booted off the 195 they are on and frogmarched down P5 to join the 'other' 195 which is already waiting. The two 195s are then combined, but the one which started at the Airport is locked out of use from Preston. Crucially, for me, the Airport to Preston, and Preston to Barrow sections are operated under different reporting numbers. Of course the above performance does not prevail if the 1851 ex-Barrow is cancelled, as it was on Sunday just gone (21/7/19).
There is an additional Sunday duty, as given by myself in post #197, above.
 
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Bovverboy

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Shaky start for the Barrow service this morning. Northern Journey Check was initially reporting that the '0618' Preston to Barrow journey was being started from Lancaster and was going to be 30 minutes late. It's now been amended to correctly say 0518.
Reason for the above given as shortage of train conductors. Do Northern have a crew base at Lancaster, or has a conductor who happens to live in the area simply been roused from his slumber? The relevant train ran ECS Preston to Lancaster, in the usual service path, other than for a very brief sojourn in the Barton & Broughton loop for the purpose of letting the TPE Glasgow past.
The 0647 Barrow to Manchester Airport is reported as being formed of two coaches as far as Preston, so the inference is that it's a 156 or 158 instead of a 195. At Preston we can be pretty sure that a 153 isn't going to be attached, the implication is that whatever is working the service atm is going to be replaced by a 195 - but there shouldn't be a 195 standing spare at Preston. Any ideas?
Note that, although both the above journeys are usually run by 195s, they are on different diagrams.
 
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Bovverboy

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The 0647 ex-Barrow, mentioned above, arrived at Preston 8L, and after a six-minute dwell, departed 12L. Enough time for a unit swap to take place, but there's no sign of any ECS movements.
Another odd thing, the train was apparently routed into Platform 3 at Preston (i.e. the main northbound platform) in place of the scheduled Platform 4, despite there being nothing anywhere near P4 at the time, that I can see.
 
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Mathew S

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Bovverboy said:
The 0647 ex-Barrow, mentioned above, arrived at Preston 8L, and after a six-minute dwell, departed 12L. Enough time for a unit swap to take place, but there's no sign of any ECS movements.
Another odd thing, the train was apparently routed into Platform 3 at Preston (i.e. the main northbound platform) in place of the scheduled Platform 4, despite there being nothing anywhere near P4 at the time, that I can see.
Click to expand...
I'm on this at the moment, and it's 156491. Nothern's JourneyCheck page lists the service as going to be shortformed 2 cars rather than 3 but only as far as Preston. I'm assuming the original plan was a unit swap at Preston. However, PIS announcements when I was waiting for it at Wigan said it was delayed (while it was stuck at Preston) "due to a fault on this train" so something evidently went awry somewhere.
 
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Bovverboy said:
Shaky start for the Barrow service this morning. Northern Journey Check was initially reporting that the '0618' Preston to Barrow journey was being started from Lancaster and was going to be 30 minutes late. It's now been amended to correctly say 0518.
Reason for the above given as shortage of train conductors. Do Northern have a crew base at Lancaster, or has a conductor who happens to live in the area simply been roused from his slumber? The relevant train ran ECS Preston to Lancaster, in the usual service path, other than for a very brief sojourn in the Barton & Broughton loop for the purpose of letting the TPE Glasgow past.
The 0647 Barrow to Manchester Airport is reported as being formed of two coaches as far as Preston, so the inference is that it's a 156 or 158 instead of a 195. At Preston we can be pretty sure that a 153 isn't going to be attached, the implication is that whatever is working the service atm is going to be replaced by a 195 - but there shouldn't be a 195 standing spare at Preston. Any ideas?
Note that, although both the above journeys are usually run by 195s, they are on different diagrams.
Click to expand...

Late start for the 05:18 departure and the subsequent running ECS would be down to either a last minute shortage of the booked Blackpool (ex-TPE) conductor or a Barrow conductor and a spare having to be taxied to Lancaster. Or a late taxi for the Barrow conductor. Can’t remember off the top of my head if it’s a Barrow/Blackpool conductor. It’s a Wigan driver, I know that.
 
Jamesrob637

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Bovverboy said:
Now that 195 workings seem to have settled down for now, perhaps it's time to update the duties as provided by mikemcniven. In the Mon/Fri duties (post #1 of this thread) I am aware of only one minor error, that being that on Circuit 2 the 1147 Windermere to Oxenholme should be shown as reporting number 2C09 rather than 2X09.
The Saturday duties were given in post #116.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/48204666971/
There are a couple of errors, one being that on Circuit 2 the 1943 Barrow to Manchester Airport should be shown as 1934. Also on Circuit 6 the 0613 and 2129 departures from Liverpool should be shown as running to Manchester Airport, and the 0750 and 2249 departures should similarly be shown as being from there.
There is an additional diagram, which has proved to be every bit as much a 195 duty as the others.
0337 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
0551 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
0709 Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road
0912 Manchester Oxford Road - Liverpool
1016 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
1150 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
1316 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
1450 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
1616 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
1750 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
1915 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
2047 Manchester Airport - Liverpool
2224 Liverpool - Manchester Airport
Thanks are due to NWR001, and others, for clarifying some of the above.
Click to expand...

Someone I know caught the 14:50 Airport to Liverpool today at Piccadilly (15:09) and has reported 2x150 on this service.
 
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childwallblues

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I think at the diagram shown post 201 will be a 195 if one is available. It is normally 2 x 150 and one of these in recent times has been green 150105.
 
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