samuelmorris
Established Member
Yes, the branding is purple-based, as will be the livery.
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New trains for East Midlands Franchise
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Jozhua
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Well if they're using 180's they'll probably end up using it a lot, and not for staff information!
Kneedown
Established Member
Nope. Predominately "Aubergine".
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Kneedown
Established Member
Call a spade a metallic manual earth-extracting device...
Rolls off the tongue rather nicely!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I guess that shows you've been to a staff briefing on that bus.
Maybe not - but the only possible fare evasion would be between Wellingborough and Corby - all the stations that the 360s will be calling at further south - Bedford, both Lutons and St Pancras all have barriers - so any evaders will likely be picked up there.
In reality a guard could change unit at each station stop - which would further limit any possible fare evasion.
londonmidland
Established Member
I wonder if the new livery on the 360’s will retain that ‘box like’ look on the front of it, or if it will be more rounded, so it’ll end up looking more like a 185?
SemaphoreSlim
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Hitachi have been awarded the contract for the new bi-mode trains for 2022
Brissle Girl
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I’ve been hunting for an official announcement for this. Is there a source you can link to please.
sprinterguy
Established Member
Given that either of those train lengths would be too long for the platforms at St Pancras, assuming that 25/26 metre AT-300 vehicles are being ordered, I strongly suspect that you're going to be disappointed.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
9 x 26m seems to be pretty standard if they aren't going for shorter formations to double up.
sprinterguy
Established Member
Agreed, 9 carriages seems to be the standard for longer sets, being only slightly longer than a 2+8 HST.
InTheEastMids
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Obviously subject to official confirmation this is a good step forward, and seems lower risk than the unproven Bombardier offer. I'm hoping they work pretty much out of the box.
Assuming 9*26m sets?
This gets you to just under 240m which is the spec for MML platforms.
Will there be any reduced length units because 2 coupled 5*26m trains would be too long, but great news for capacity of all 9-cars. Simplifies diagramming too I guess, which must be painful for EMT as they have 5 different intercity train variants in quite a small fleet
A real loss for Bombardier though.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I assume the performance requirement has been quietly dropped?
cactustwirly
Established Member
The problem with that is that some services at St Pancras share platforms, the timetable will require work to shuffle things around in order to fit an all 9 car fleet.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I would expect a full timetable recast anyway to be honest.
InTheEastMids
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Agree the timetable is a bit of a mess. The opening of Corby and EM Parkway messed it up. The Thameslink recast in 2018 further ruined it and as above, having 5 different train variants is massively suboptimal.
Plus an 803(?) On electric will probably be minutes quicker between St Pancras and Wigston, especially compared to the 8-car HSTs
Was there anything released about how many train sets EMR would procure? I'm guessing that with the Corby electrics factored in, the requirement will be for around 20 sets?
If its Hitachi then it will be a variant of 800s and 802s because they will need to have an extra engine to match Meridian timings on diesel (part of the franchise specifications). Its a blow to Bombardier but Hitachi have very little work for Newton Aycliffe from next year and this order would be a life line. Bombardier has very little capacity at Derby for the next 2-3 years and new models are much more prone to delays entering service.
irish_rail
Established Member
Or maybe some of GWRs 5 car 802s could be sent to mml with some 9 car 802s built for gwr
cactustwirly
Established Member
No, the 802s cannot keep to the 222 timings, the Hitachi's for EMR will need to have power packs in every coach.
krus_aragon
Established Member
Cue the Class 803?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
So high floor end coaches? Provided any accessibility issues can be worked out I like that, I prefer the alignment of windowsill to elbow in the high floor coaches
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm sure they will cope, albeit with a few going for a scenic trip to Nottingham and back initially.
NotATrainspott
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If it's Hitachi, then I'm sure they'll have offered two options:
1. The standard 80x design with engines mapped to produce as much power as practical, with the knowledge that they would need more intensive maintenance. This would probably still miss the target journey times on diesel, but not by so much as a standard IEP timing would. This could mean going for 9-car sets with all 7 intermediate vehicles being powered, but there would be no fundamentally new carriage types like powered driving cars or intermediate pantograph/transformer vehicles.
2. A custom design likely involving major changes throughout the train. If you want to have half-set capability, you have real problems if you just replace the pantograph/transformer driving vehicle with a powered one as then you could end up with two pantographs very close together. You'd probably have to put the pantograph and transformer onto an intermediate vehicle.
The reduced flexibility of option 1 (full-length sets) and possibly missing the journey time targets has to be weighed against the increased costs of option 2. If you're a ROSCO, why would you want option 2? You'd have a custom fleet designed solely for a relatively short-term requirement which is liable to be dispensed with well before their service life is up. You'd be betting heavily against extra electrification in future, which is a rather bold strategy.
1. The standard 80x design with engines mapped to produce as much power as practical, with the knowledge that they would need more intensive maintenance. This would probably still miss the target journey times on diesel, but not by so much as a standard IEP timing would. This could mean going for 9-car sets with all 7 intermediate vehicles being powered, but there would be no fundamentally new carriage types like powered driving cars or intermediate pantograph/transformer vehicles.
2. A custom design likely involving major changes throughout the train. If you want to have half-set capability, you have real problems if you just replace the pantograph/transformer driving vehicle with a powered one as then you could end up with two pantographs very close together. You'd probably have to put the pantograph and transformer onto an intermediate vehicle.
The reduced flexibility of option 1 (full-length sets) and possibly missing the journey time targets has to be weighed against the increased costs of option 2. If you're a ROSCO, why would you want option 2? You'd have a custom fleet designed solely for a relatively short-term requirement which is liable to be dispensed with well before their service life is up. You'd be betting heavily against extra electrification in future, which is a rather bold strategy.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Do 80x have a 25kV bus within the unit? If so then the pantographs could be each end and the transformer anywhere. However there's still the problem of getting two short sets into St Pancras. Two 4-car would fit, each one would probably match the seats in a 5-car Meridian, and assuming Corby trains take the Bedford and Wellingborough passengers the total numbers on the semi-fasts might not be many more at the end of the franchise than they are now. A 4-car with three engines would probably be a bit down on acceleration compared to a Meridian, but perhaps with electrification to Market Harbrough that doesn't matter so much now.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, they do indeed.
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