Highlandspring
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That’s in the finest tradition of the sleeper going back years and years.
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Caledonian Sleeper
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
But it's not good enough in a premium market.
It'd be fine if it was still Bargain Berths and a Travelodge/Premier Inn on wheels.
The highlander still is Bargain Berths, just not Bargain price.
The lowlander is, however, much better. My wake up call (with coffe, juice and bacon roll), was suitably deferential and bang on the appointed time.
47271
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I might have misremembered this, but my recollection of the reasoning behind the lectern checkin was that:
- room keycards on the new trains meant that a key could be issued to passengers at a 'desk', whether on the platform or, in the case of Club, in or around the Virgin lounge. Then in theory everyone could let themselves in as you do in an hotel.
- reducing staff checking in at individual doors meant that resource could be freed up to speed up service in the lounge (in the case of the Highlander) from 830pm onwards.
- it improved security on the platform since only legitimate travellers should be wandering around behind the lectern 'gateline'.
Only the second of the three ideas worked in practice. Keycards are left in rooms rather than issued at the desk and staff were generally so distracted by whatever they were dealing with at the checkin point that anyone could stroll by unnoticed and find their way into any part of the train. So the system made security worse rather than better. The queues at Euston were shocking thereby killing off one of the great advantages of the train over flying - you don't have to shuffle forward in depressing queues.
If they've gone back to the old system then I suspect that the Highlander lounges may be slower at early food service, but I can't think of any other real drawbacks.
- room keycards on the new trains meant that a key could be issued to passengers at a 'desk', whether on the platform or, in the case of Club, in or around the Virgin lounge. Then in theory everyone could let themselves in as you do in an hotel.
- reducing staff checking in at individual doors meant that resource could be freed up to speed up service in the lounge (in the case of the Highlander) from 830pm onwards.
- it improved security on the platform since only legitimate travellers should be wandering around behind the lectern 'gateline'.
Only the second of the three ideas worked in practice. Keycards are left in rooms rather than issued at the desk and staff were generally so distracted by whatever they were dealing with at the checkin point that anyone could stroll by unnoticed and find their way into any part of the train. So the system made security worse rather than better. The queues at Euston were shocking thereby killing off one of the great advantages of the train over flying - you don't have to shuffle forward in depressing queues.
If they've gone back to the old system then I suspect that the Highlander lounges may be slower at early food service, but I can't think of any other real drawbacks.
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Really? They advertise that fact that you can vacate berths by such and such a time which is often well after the "arrival time" (at the terminal station of course).
It is still the same. The customers deserve better. Thes is a flagship. It’s a supposedly top notch service at (now) top prices. And the low quality of the product (some of which is beyond the staff’s capabilities) is just not good enough. I am writing this from the US. Their front line service and politeness is up to its usual impeccable standards. Even after a long day in 100 degree temps, they are impeccable.
The Sleeper just doesn’t achieve this.
What makes the sleeper an experience? A lounge car. A quiet drink or two as England passes by into the night. Breakfast in Scotland. Scenery. Ability to sleep. Arrive refreshed.
What is it delivering at the moment?
Surely the railway people on here are embarrassed at how what is basically the premium product we have is such a poor offering. How are you going to attract high end tourist money and prices by consistently delivering a poor product.
The Sleeper just doesn’t achieve this.
What makes the sleeper an experience? A lounge car. A quiet drink or two as England passes by into the night. Breakfast in Scotland. Scenery. Ability to sleep. Arrive refreshed.
What is it delivering at the moment?
Surely the railway people on here are embarrassed at how what is basically the premium product we have is such a poor offering. How are you going to attract high end tourist money and prices by consistently delivering a poor product.
jfowkes
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As someone who's going to be travelling Crewe-Aberdeen and back a lot over the next few months, I'd quite like a non-premium product at non-premium prices.
Not worried about food, drink, service or decor. But a place where I can be horizontal for a few hours with paying £100+ would be grand.
Not worried about food, drink, service or decor. But a place where I can be horizontal for a few hours with paying £100+ would be grand.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Being on the way to Inverness at the minute (well, as far as Stirling today) I had every intention of using it this weekend, possibly even both ways - but not in its present state.
I don't use Travelodge but if someone was banging on my door in a Premier Inn I would be claiming the Good Night Guarantee refund.
I think they’d rather you paid a grand....
Highlandspring
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Agreed.
Yes but the attendants have been attempting to have the cabins vacated as soon as possible on arrival for decades. They’re not usually as unsubtle as shown in the post above but they have lots of ways of making it obvious they want you off ASAP...
This. This is exactly what I experienced last month. It was perfect.
Apart from the ability to sleep, which is my fault, not the sleeper as such.
47271
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Well, exactly, and you're writing from direct experience.
I'm not sure that the indignant post you were replying to was based on anything other than reading this thread...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've certainly claimed it for less (and it was paid without question). So good point.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And like the VTWC Coach K debacle it's just not acceptable, and it needs the management to come down on it like a ton of bricks.
If you're paid to steward the train until 0800, that's what you do. Not 0749, not 0759 and 59 seconds, you do it until 0800. Precisely.
CaledonianBlue
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Sounds awful. One of the great things about the sleeper is just pitching up and strolling through a calm, relaxed station and then out into the cool night air (halfway to Camden) - the opposite of a stressful, herded, brashly lit, enclosed airport pen.
MrEd
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Every passenger’s experience is different and I appreciate that, but I am very surprised by your observation. I would call myself a regular user of the Sleeper to/from both Inverness and Fort William, and never once has my breakfast been forgotten or delivered late, nor has any host ever got my order wrong. This is regardless of whether I am travelling standard or first, or whether I am having breakfast in the cabin or the lounge car. Perhaps I am just very lucky?
That said, most crew bases (apart from Fort William, which seems to have retained its staff very well for the past five or so years) have a lot of new hosts at the moment, as a lot of the experienced hosts and team leaders who had worked the service since First Group days have moved on (some old hands have retired, while many others have become train managers with CS or moved to higher grades with other TOCs, or left the rail industry altogether). The London and Inverness bases in particular have a lot of new and inexperienced hosts at the moment, which may explain their lack of organisation. As their training coincides with the introduction of Mk5s, they have a lot to learn and to remember, and they may simply be overwhelmed by the amount of information (given the complexity of the current operation). Whilst this cannot excuse basic errors in customer service, it may explain why some aspects of the service are not especially smooth or well rehearsed at the moment.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Thinking on, I very often book late checkout in hotels, and have on a number of occasions had someone banging on the door asking if I was going to check out at the normal checkout time. It's not wilful, though, it's just disorganisation, and tends to bring profuse apologies once I point it out.
ashkeba
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I apologise to the language police for not using the past tense. English is not my first language.
philthetube
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I wonder how many people have been thrown out of their cabins early at least twice and not complained, anyone winging on here and not to C/S is moaning to the wrong people.
Yep, last time I travelled (autumn 2015, so just after Serco took over) my breakfast ordered for 7:30 turned up at 6 and the door was being rattled by the steward ordering us off at 7. What should have been a gentle tube & stroll to the hotel for the booked 8am checkin (Ibis, not that pricy for an early checkin!) turned into sitting in a Costa nursing a coffee and waiting for 8:00 to come round. It’s crap service & the crew clearly just wanted to get home on a Saturday morning.
Come to think of it I had a similar experience on the Northbound lowlander on a Saturday morning at Glasgow Central back in First days. It was quite clear the steward wanted away so he could no doubt get home for some sleep before going to the game or whatever. So much for the "you may remain in your berth until 08.00" or whatever.
jagardner1984
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On the Northlink Ferries, where you have a similar right to stay in your berth until a fixed time (I forget what it is), there is a very gentle P.A. in the room which simply and softly informs you when approaching (10-15mins away) Lerwick or Aberdeen. Most people do want off in my experience so take that as their signal to leave, but is clearly a more relaxed approach than battering a door with a key.
"This is a passenger announcement, this train will shortly be departing for the depot, would all remaining passengers please vacate the train" at 0755, followed by a quick walk down the carriages by the hosts, is surely all that is required ? It would give enough time for anyone who has seriously slept in to get off ?
"This is a passenger announcement, this train will shortly be departing for the depot, would all remaining passengers please vacate the train" at 0755, followed by a quick walk down the carriages by the hosts, is surely all that is required ? It would give enough time for anyone who has seriously slept in to get off ?
It would, but then that wouldn't allow the crew to buzz off early, which is why they try their utmost to turf everyone out asap.
PaxVobiscum
Established Member
Actually, my experience is that if one is seen to be actively making preparations to leave, there's no hassle from the hosts. A disarming smile and word of thanks to the host probably helps 
. Indeed, arriving at Glasgow Central I have frequently seen Sleeper hosts ahead of me in the walk down platform 1 (perhaps they had completely cleared their coaches, though I doubt that's always the case).
. Indeed, arriving at Glasgow Central I have frequently seen Sleeper hosts ahead of me in the walk down platform 1 (perhaps they had completely cleared their coaches, though I doubt that's always the case).
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Just like bus drivers ragging round the route as fast as possible to knock off early (which has largely stopped due to GPS tracking) this needs to be stopped, and treated as a very serious disciplinary offence. It wouldn't be accepted for a member of ticket office staff (say) to walk out 10 minutes early just because they felt like - this should not be accepted either.
Or if you can't get them to pack it in, and they start throwing up threats of strikes etc, simply remove that note from the timetable - that way the proper expectation is set (that you leave when the train arrives) and you don't get a nasty and rude surprise. Just like the Coach K issue would be solved (not to my preference, but solved) by putting RESERVED STAFF on the back row and telling them to pack in trying to turf people out of the other rows.
Steve Harris
Member
Unfortunately this is nothing new.
The last time I did the sleeper was circa 2001 and even then the wake up call and breakfast was sometimes 10 - 15 minutes earlier than asked for.
Silly me put it down to other punters wanting their wake up call at the same time. But looking back now I can see it probably was a subtle attempt to get everything done so the steward could knock off early.
However, If a steward woke me 1 1/2 hours before arranged he would be on the recieving end of some terse language. As that is bang out of order.
Highlandspring
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Incidentally it's not just a CS issue, I've had exactly the same on the Night Riviera where the attendant kept knocking on my berth door every 10 minutes after about quarter to six to "check you're still ok sir"
greaterwest
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I've used the Riviera a number of times and have never had this sort of experience. I found the staff extremely helpful and polite, certainly not like they were attempting to rush the guests off the train.