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Are existing punishments for acts of vandalism sufficient to act as a deterrent?

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jon0844

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AM9

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I can understand the disappointment in this event and the extreme retribution against the accused perpetrators that some poster seminars to think is justified, but 'short sharp shock' remedies have proven to be the least successful correction devices . See here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ment-eighties-short-sharp-shock-a8166861.html
If society* sees brutal punishment of offenders as a way to bring them back into society, they are clearly barking up the wrong tree as the Thatcher imposed experiment clearly demonstrated.
Replacing any chance of remorse with an ingrained hated for a bullying administration is the surest way to start them on a life of crime or turn them into severely damaged individuals for the rest of their lives.

Acknowledging that Thatcher had sociopath tendencies revealed by her 'no such thing as society' outburst.
 

jon0844

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I agree that many punishments don't work (for some people), but what's the alternative? Leave people free to commit multiple (sometimes hundreds) of offences? In some cases the only way a town gets rid of a problem is that the person leaves or is evicted and it becomes an issue for somewhere else.

We see people pushing the boundaries more and more, presumably feeling as if they're untouchable, and look where we are now.

I think there has to be some middle ground.

At least when someone is inside they're not out breaking the law.
 

AM9

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I agree that many punishments don't work (for some people), but what's the alternative? Leave people free to commit multiple (sometimes hundreds) of offences? In some cases the only way a town gets rid of a problem is that the person leaves or is evicted and it becomes an issue for somewhere else.

We see people pushing the boundaries more and more, presumably feeling as if they're untouchable, and look where we are now.

I think there has to be some middle ground.

At least when someone is inside they're not out breaking the law.
That's right but prison can be a finishing school for criminals whereas more appropriate sentences/treatment might fix the problem permanently. I wasn't advocating that nothing should be done. However, we do now understand that there is no one size (of punishment) fits all remedy, especially with adolescents. Understanding what the real issue is should be the first step, not when the original problem has been buried under a mountain of other damage caused by throwing them into captivity - as in 'out of sight, out of mind'.
 

Peter Kelford

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Just to be clear I don't advocate corporal punishment. What I do think, however, is that creative sentencing works. For instance, in Belgium, perpetrators and victims can meet through a new-ish initiative. Similarly, these youths could, provided they are sufficiently motivated, be put through a modelling workshop. There also is evidence that this helps the victim deal with their traumatic incident.
None of the hard strategies work. If only a judge was given the power to oblige them to attending MDMRC or another nearby club for 10 years. Or if their computers were ceremoniously destroyed with a hammer. Prison will sadly set them on a path of addiction, poverty and petty crime. In some instances, these people become a serious threat to the community. Rather, giving them the tools to sympathise with the railway community is the long and slow way, but maybe in 20 years' time they will be able to look back and say to themselves 'Those modellers at the MDMRC really turned my life around'. Who knows, perhaps in 60 years' time they might even be the ones championing our great hobby.

I also feel compelled to add that Military Service does very little to improve them. It just reinforces the stereotype of the army being full of 'Get yer sorry head over here!' type drill sergeants, furnished with canes and a dictionary full of expletives.
 

PeterC

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When I was much younger I remember seeing references to research that found that the real deterrent was the likelyhood of being caught.
 

Peter Kelford

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The sentence has been passed by Lincoln Youth Court:

The parents of three teenagers who deliberately trashed a model railway exhibition worth £30,000 have been ordered to pay compensation.

The Market Deeping Model Railway Club display was damaged at Welland Academy in Stamford, Lincolnshire, on 18 May.

The boys, and a fourth defendant shared a bottle of vodka as part of a "pre-exam night out" before going on a "rampage", a court heard.

Lincoln Youth Court heard the youths had deliberately pushed tables over.

The four 16-year-old boys, who cannot be named for legal reasons, admitted criminal damage.

Three of them were handed 12-month referral orders and their parents were also ordered to pay £500 in compensation.

A fourth boy was told he would be sentenced on 2 September.

Quote courtesy of @ainsworth74

Full article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838.

In laymen's terms, a referral order is a contract carrying a punishment (such as £2500 fine) if breached. I make no comment on the gravity of the punishment, but I would have rather they pay in the form of 1000 hours of unpaid work over (say) 5 or 10 years.
 
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Bletchleyite

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To me it's one where a "punishment in kind" is a very good option - so for all forms of vandalism where a layman can put it right I would like to see the punishment being simply to put it right at their own cost and in their own time. So for example cleaning graffiti off, or sanding and revarnishing wood that has had a name scratched into it or similar.
 
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