Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

LNW-GW Joint · 21 Jul 2019

td97 said:
Exactly this. The ex TPE Liverpool via Warrington Central service which was replaced by the Northern Airport service (with the Manchester destinations are slightly adjusted).

Nevertheless, 185s ran one of the 2 semi-fast Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester services for many years before moving to the Chat Moss route.
The Northern replacement 195 happens to go to the Airport, a service which previously was a limited stop 319 via Chat Moss.
It's true that 195s are not (yet) operating on routes that only saw 14x/15x before.

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a_c_skinner · 21 Jul 2019

On a more mundane level are the 195s proving more reliable than in their first few days?

I promise not to complain about them again...

js1000 · 21 Jul 2019

a_c_skinner said:
On a more mundane level are the 195s proving more reliable than in their first few days?

I promise not to complain about them again...

They're still having teething issues occasionally - Friday morning wasn't great.

The 06:47 from Barrow to Manchester Airport was cancelled.

The six-coach 07:48 from Wilmslow to Liverpool Lime Street was delayed by 30 minutes due to a fault.

CompactDstrxion · 21 Jul 2019

My first 195 today Barrow-Manchester. I have the same niggles as other posters, but overall they are a thumbs up from me and they can't come to Yorkshire soon enough. In one positive comparison to other 2010s stock, the seat hasn't given me lower back pain when the 80x seat did!

Bletchleyite · 21 Jul 2019

CompactDstrxion said:
My first 195 today Barrow-Manchester. I have the same niggles as other posters, but overall they are a thumbs up from me and they can't come to Yorkshire soon enough. In one positive comparison to other 2010s stock, the seat hasn't given me lower back pain when the 80x seat did!

Yes, the seats are certainly better than 80x, but that really doesn't take much doing! I think the contoured base (which is also used by ScotRail) makes the ironing board seat one of the better ones. I would of course in that market prefer the Grammer E3000 (Desiro seat) but it's better than a kick up the backside or a Fainsa Sophia (I'm not sure a kick up the backside is not preferable to one of those).

CompactDstrxion · 21 Jul 2019

After I wrote the above post we had the door bug at Manchester Piccadilly... the hustle alarm sounded as soon as the doors finished opening and then the doors closed onto a woman getting off with her suitcase. I was alert and hit the open button again straight away so don't know if that opened the doors again or if they opened on their own. Told the TM and he said he would report it.

RochdalePioneers · 21 Jul 2019

They need to roll them out quicker - the rest of the fleet is creaking badly and cascades are needed. Durham Coast was not a fun place yesterday morning - 09:35 from Boro up the coast was cancelled after the inbound unit had gone demic at Newcastle. 10:35 was a single pacer, and was full and standing by Billingham. At Hartlepool we left a lot of people behind. The poor bloody guard was apologetic but the old girl was crush loaded as it was. At Seaham not a soul got on - there were a lot of angry and upset people. Northern's twitter feed was a sight to behold - apparently the platform guy at Pools was advising people to catch the Metro from Sunderland - and how are they to get there?

That it was Pride in Newcastle just exacerbated the usual Saturday shopper crowds. Whereas this morning the 10:35 was a 156/158 combo with plenty of room for the somewhat smaller loadings...

js1000 · 21 Jul 2019

CompactDstrxion said:
After I wrote the above post we had the door bug at Manchester Piccadilly... the hustle alarm sounded as soon as the doors finished opening and then the doors closed onto a woman getting off with her suitcase. I was alert and hit the open button again straight away so don't know if that opened the doors again or if they opened on their own. Told the TM and he said he would report it.

It's unfortunate that this is still happening. It was common in the first few days of operation - particularly at Oxford Road. I believe there is some override that has to be activated to ensure the doors don't close automatically or something like that. I don't think it's a software issue, I think it's just conductors undergoing supervised training and forgetting the correct procedure.

mrcaa · 21 Jul 2019

js1000 said:
It's unfortunate that this is still happening. It was common in the first few days of operation - particularly at Oxford Road. I believe there is some override that has to be activated to ensure the doors don't close automatically or something like that. I don't think it's a software issue, I think it's just conductors undergoing supervised training and forgetting the correct procedure.

When I was on one on the first day of service the more experienced guard was explaining to the junior one what he needed to do but I couldn’t quite catch it all. Something about pressing two buttons at once when they had that problem when we reached Oxford Road. I can’t imagine it’s inexperience at this stage though. Surely some kind of memo would have made it round all the drivers and guards if that was the case considering how often it’s happened so far?

The Northern Star · 21 Jul 2019

To report. The ASDO has to be overridden at stations such as Piccadilly and Oxford road due to multiple platforms (crazy, I know!!) and the PIS system is being worked on but drivers have said if they set the PIS before entering details into the GSMR, the PIS works fine! Next roll out of the 195s is next month

The Northern Star · 21 Jul 2019

Also - DTM's are now being trained at Huddersfield which means that the managers will be able to drive them with supervision from the 27th of July..

Bovverboy · 22 Jul 2019

There have been four 195s out on Manchester Airport - Barrow/Windermere today. (Well, yesterday now, Sunday 21/7/19). Diagrams as designated by mikemcniven in post #116 on the '195 initial diagrams' thread.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/48204667011/
Circuit 1: 195119
Circuit 2: 195117
Circuit 3: 195120
195121 was on the additional circuit as detailed by myself in post #197 of the above thread.
Other units in use have been 156486, 158787, and 158795.

Bovverboy · 22 Jul 2019

Cancelled journeys on Manchester Airport - Barrow/Windermere, Sunday 21/7/19.

0840 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled after Manchester Oxford Road, return 1133 Manchester Airport - Windermere cancelled to Manchester Piccadilly
0935 Manchester Airport - Barrow, cancelled after Manchester Oxford Road
1047 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled after Preston, return 1334 Manchester Airport - Barrow cancelled to Preston
1308 Windermere - Manchester Airport cancelled after Preston, return 1533 Manchester Airport - Barrow cancelled to Preston
1633 Manchester Airport - Barrow, cancelled after Lancaster
1733 Manchester Airport - Windermere cancelled after Preston, all subsequent journeys on diagram also cancelled (2006 Windermere - Oxenholme, 2028 Oxenholme - Windermere, 2053 Windermere - Oxenholme, 2118 Oxenholme - Windermere, 2144 Windermere - Preston)
1851 Barrow - Preston cancelled
1947 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled after Manchester Oxford Road

Xenophon PCDGS · 22 Jul 2019

Bovverboy said:
Cancelled journeys on Manchester Airport - Barrow/Windermere, Sunday 21/7/19.

0840 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled after Manchester Oxford Road, return 1133 Manchester Airport - Windermere cancelled to Manchester Piccadilly
0935 Manchester Airport - Barrow, cancelled after Manchester Oxford Road
1047 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled after Preston, return 1334 Manchester Airport - Barrow cancelled to Preston
1308 Windermere - Manchester Airport cancelled after Preston, return 1533 Manchester Airport - Barrow cancelled to Preston
1633 Manchester Airport - Barrow, cancelled after Lancaster
1733 Manchester Airport - Windermere cancelled after Preston, all subsequent journeys on diagram also cancelled (2006 Windermere - Oxenholme, 2028 Oxenholme - Windermere, 2053 Windermere - Oxenholme, 2118 Oxenholme - Windermere, 2144 Windermere - Preston)
1851 Barrow - Preston cancelled
1947 Barrow - Manchester Airport cancelled after Manchester Oxford Road

Is that a concerted Northern attempt to ruin any family Sunday day-out to stations on the Barrow-in-Furness line?

Bletchleyite · 22 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Is that a concerted Northern attempt to ruin any family Sunday day-out to stations on the Barrow-in-Furness line?

I wouldn't generally consider Northern competent enough to wilfully do that, to be honest.

Nymanic · 22 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Is that a concerted Northern attempt to ruin any family Sunday day-out to stations on the Barrow-in-Furness line?

Bletchleyite said:
I wouldn't generally consider Northern competent enough to wilfully do that, to be honest.

It further begs the question as to why on earth Northern have been advertising discounted Advance fares to stations in Cumbria in recent weeks...

I was caught out by one such cancellation at Preston last Sunday, having been warned a mere eight minutes before scheduled arrival. That I missed earlier-running alternative trains due to a lack of communication was bad enough. And then the next alternative - from Blackpool North - turned out to be a single 156...

I digress. 195s and their medley of enduring faults may do little to reverse the rot brought on by such a shambolic Sunday offering.

Bletchleyite · 22 Jul 2019

Nymanic said:
It further begs the question as to why on earth Northern have been advertising discounted Advance fares to stations in Cumbria in recent weeks...

I was caught out by one such cancellation at Preston last Sunday, having been warned a mere eight minutes before scheduled arrival. That I missed earlier-running alternative trains due to a lack of communication was bad enough. And then the next alternative - from Blackpool North - turned out to be a single 156...

I digress. 195s and their medley of enduring faults may do little to reverse the rot brought on by such a shambolic Sunday offering.

I noted yesterday that three consecutive trains from Chorley to Preston were cancelled, leaving a gap of an hour and a half.

Nice weather on a Sunday?

AMD · 22 Jul 2019

js1000 said:
It's unfortunate that this is still happening. It was common in the first few days of operation - particularly at Oxford Road. I believe there is some override that has to be activated to ensure the doors don't close automatically or something like that. I don't think it's a software issue, I think it's just conductors undergoing supervised training and forgetting the correct procedure.

A couple of software issues were identified at the start of July - one was around the driver taking his key out and the unit going into failsafe mode, which is doors shut - at a meeting last week it was assured that these software issues should now be resolved. The slight challenge at the moment is that various units are running around with different versions of software.

Mogster · 22 Jul 2019

More door problems at Oxford Road just now.

Doors opened then the doors closing alarm sounded immediately with the doors trying to close repeatedly as large numbers of people were attempting to board.

Regulars seem to be used to this now and were seen forcibly holding the doors open so others could board... :lol:

Hardly ideal though...

Bletchleyite · 22 Jul 2019

Mogster said:
More door problems at Oxford Road just now.

Doors opened then the doors closing alarm sounded immediately with the doors trying to close repeatedly as large numbers of people were attempting to board.

Regulars seem to be used to this now and were seen forcibly holding the doors open so others could board...

Hardly ideal though...

With what has happened on Merseyrail which resulted in a guard being dragged through the Courts (albeit being acquitted at trial), I'm amazed they are not barred from service until this is resolved. An unexpectedly closing door could easily knock an infirm passenger onto the track.

It didn't happen on the one I used, though; I stood by the door for a while at one of the stations (obstructing the sensor) and the door did not attempt to close.

Mogster · 22 Jul 2019

Bletchleyite said:
With what has happened on Merseyrail which resulted in a guard being dragged through the Courts (albeit being acquitted at trial), I'm amazed they are not barred from service until this is resolved. An unexpectedly closing door could easily knock an infirm passenger onto the track.

It didn't happen on the one I used, though; I stood by the door for a while at one of the stations (obstructing the sensor) and the door did not attempt to close.

Yeah, it’s a serious health and safety issue.

Mathew S · 22 Jul 2019

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Is that a concerted Northern attempt to ruin any family Sunday day-out to stations on the Barrow-in-Furness line?

No, it's down to Northern staff not working Sundays, and voting down the pay rise they were offered to, amongst other things, do that.

Nymanic said:
It further begs the question as to why on earth Northern have been advertising discounted Advance fares to stations in Cumbria in recent weeks...

I was caught out by one such cancellation at Preston last Sunday, having been warned a mere eight minutes before scheduled arrival. That I missed earlier-running alternative trains due to a lack of communication was bad enough. And then the next alternative - from Blackpool North - turned out to be a single 156...

I digress. 195s and their medley of enduring faults may do little to reverse the rot brought on by such a shambolic Sunday offering.

Having reached an agreement with Aslef about Sunday working, which Northern were not to know that drivers would vote down, the company had no reason to think that these problems would return.

Bovverboy · 22 Jul 2019

LNW-GW Joint said:
Nevertheless, 185s ran one of the 2 semi-fast Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester services for many years before moving to the Chat Moss route.
The Northern replacement 195 happens to go to the Airport, a service which previously was a limited stop 319 via Chat Moss.
It's true that 195s are not (yet) operating on routes that only saw 14x/15x before.

I think it's outrageous to suggest that 195s on the CLC route have replaced 185s when there was a clear twelve months between the disappearance of the latter and appearance of the first of the former. If TPE had trains which were ostensibly suitable for the route, but Northern didn't, what was the point of altering the status quo?

Bovverboy · 22 Jul 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I noted yesterday that three consecutive trains from Chorley to Preston were cancelled, leaving a gap of an hour and a half.

I presume the three trains you're referring to are the 1604 Manchester Victoria, 1638 Manchester Airport, and 1701 Manchester Victoria. So the gap between trains which actually ran was a scheduled two hours, 1538 to 1738. (Actual two hours and five minutes). All the Blackpool to Manchester Victoria journeys were cancelled yesterday, so it only needed the cancellation of a single Blackpool-Manchester Airport to create such a gap.
Actually, there was an even greater gap, the last five southbound trains scheduled to call at Chorley were all cancelled - 2104 Victoria, 2137 Airport, 2203 Victoria, 2237 Airport, 2303 Victoria. So the last train from Chorley to Manchester was 2038.
There was also a two-hour gap northbound, from 1734 to 1933.

EE Andy b1 · 22 Jul 2019

I just hope that we do eventually get Class 195s on the stoppers on CLC as one or two have said might happen.
They are on the cheap ish side but that's down to the DfT and the TOC and better than what we've had for years, there far from perfect, faults and software will get sorted in time, I'm now glad we have them.

Railperf · 22 Jul 2019

Rail magazine reporting Four two-car and 11 three-car Class 195's are either stored at various depots, undergoing testing and commissioning, or awaiting acceptance

Ivan Winters · 22 Jul 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I must admit to being surprised that 172/19x don't have a freewheel for coasting purposes, heritage DMUs do.

(Removed bit about torque converters as I believe it was wrong - they need them for starting out)

Vintage DMU had a physical clutch followed by a mechanical gearbox. If anything in that drivetrain seized the diesel engine could be damaged so freewheel was included to prevent drivetrain/engine damage.

HTH

Bletchleyite · 22 Jul 2019

In any case 195s do seem to be able to coast. The one I was on did in the usual 15x manner - the engine note dropped.

Boysteve · 22 Jul 2019

Has the 195 on 1F96 got a problem (21:48 ManAirport - Lime Street). It's spent the last 20 minutes between Oxford Road and Deansgate. Even at this time a queue is quickly developing behind it. Although maybe the York service (1P45) can be diverted via Guide Bridge.

Update, it appears to have reversed back into Oxford Road P2 thus allowing the delayed Euston - Glasgow to pass

Roose · 22 Jul 2019

Nymanic said:
It further begs the question as to why on earth Northern have been advertising discounted Advance fares to stations in Cumbria in recent weeks...

It was part of their punishment for the shambles inflicted by Northern upon the area in the preceding years.

IIRC the offer, which did not seem to be widely known, ended at the end of June.

Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

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