Cardiff Station Upgrade.

Tomos y Tanc · 22 Jul 2019

I couldn't find a thread for this, but the Cardiff rebuild seems to be moving forwards
Cardiff Central railway station to get £58m upgrade

Wales' busiest railway station will be "significantly" upgraded and a new station will link the west to the south, it has been announced.

UK Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said £58m would be spent on revamping Cardiff Central and West Wales Parkway would be built in Felindre, Swansea.

The move will also see journey times between Wales' two biggest cities cut by up to 14 minutes from December.

Mr Grayling said people in Cardiff "deserve a modern, accessible station".

The Department for Transport said the upgrades would ease crowding and congestion during peak periods.

Mr Grayling said: "This funding has the potential to deliver just that, ensuring more reliable, comfortable and faster journeys into and out of the capital."

Annual passenger numbers are predicted to rise from 12.7 million in 2016 to 32 million by 2043.

RailUK Forums

Maurice Turner · 22 Jul 2019

Shouldn't this have been done before the electrification?

anthony263 · 22 Jul 2019

Swansea parkway given the greenlight as well

PaulHarding150 · 22 Jul 2019

How will a 14 minute saving between Cardiff and Swansea be achieved by this December?

Maurice Turner · 22 Jul 2019

I think they are confusing the saving from Cardiff to London when the new timetable starts. But that's politicians for you.

PaulHarding150 · 22 Jul 2019

Maurice Turner said:
I think they are confusing the saving from Cardiff to London when the new timetable starts. But that's politicians for you.

I did wonder that.

Thought it was more the journalist, ra than than the civil servant press officer. That claim isn’t a quote, it’s just in the story.

Maurice Turner · 22 Jul 2019

Just rereading the BBC article, it says a 15 minute saving from Pembrokeshire to a new West Wales Parkway station at Felindre.

CapitalStar378 · 22 Jul 2019

There’s no detail apart from some platform lengthening and also no timeline. TfW have previously said that investment in Cardiff Central is scheduled for 2024 which is quite a way off considering the increasingly frequent event day crowding.

PaulHarding150 · 22 Jul 2019

Maurice Turner said:
Just rereading the BBC article, it says a 15 minute saving from Pembrokeshire to a new West Wales Parkway station at Felindre.

UK Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said £58m would be spent on revamping Cardiff Central and West Wales Parkway would be built in Felindre, Swansea.

The move will also see journey times between Wales' two biggest cities cut by up to 14 minutes from December.

There's no announcement on exactly what the improvements at Cardiff Central will be - £58m isn't a huge amount of money, let's see what the detail is first of all.

The article clearly specifies a saving of 15 minutes between Wales' two biggest cities (Cardiff and Swansea) from December (2019) but I'm fairly sure that's not true and someone is mixing their projects up.

Cardiff123 · 22 Jul 2019

Maurice Turner said:
Shouldn't this have been done before the electrification?

There won't be any changes above the platforms as was proposed 3-4 years ago, apart from Platform 0 being lengthened. All the changes will be below platform level. Apart from the rear of the station, which was only 'upgraded' and re-built 4 years ago, and will now be re-built again.

See this article for more info:
Metro Central transport hub plans for Cardiff unveiled
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-42689172

I suspect we'll have to wait for the story to appear in various industry magazines for accurate timelines and details, rather than the BBC 'copy and paste the press release' journalism.

Fieldar · 22 Jul 2019

The Department for Transport press release is here and does state it is a 14 minute saving between Cardiff and London:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-transforming-south-wales-rail-network

UK government announces up to £58 million funding commitment for significant upgrades to capital’s key train station to deliver improved access and platforms suited for longer trains

commitment to progress plans for a new parkway station at Swansea, reducing journey times to West Wales

up to 14 minute journey time reduction between Cardiff and London from December 2019

Cardiff123 · 22 Jul 2019

Fieldar said:
The Department for Transport press release is here and does state it is a 14 minute saving between Cardiff and London:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-transforming-south-wales-rail-network

So it's sloppy BBC journalism then.

PaulHarding150 · 22 Jul 2019

Fieldar said:
The Department for Transport press release is here and does state it is a 14 minute saving between Cardiff and London:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-transforming-south-wales-rail-network

Cardiff123 said:
So it's sloppy BBC journalism then.

That makes scene. I wonder how long it'll take to change it.

Cardiff123 · 22 Jul 2019

PaulHarding150 said:
That makes scene. I wonder how long it'll take to change it.

The article on the BBC News Wales website still hasn't been corrected.

Paul Dancey · 22 Jul 2019

From what I've read previously, extending platform zero is likely to be a major project. It was suggested that the scheduled front of the station and clock tower would have to be jacked up and moved forward into the square to allow this to happen, which sounds pretty expensive. Or has that idea been dropped in the "cut down version" now being proposed?

One of the original reasons for extending platform 0 was said to be to allow GWR's London service to use it. But if that's true, what's the logic behind proposing to provide one entrance for platforms 1 and 2, and another for the rest. If your going to split entrances, wouldn't a split between Platforms 0 - 5 and 6 - 8 be more logical?

Whilst the proposals for a high level concourse may have been dropped, I hope the work isn't just to the entrances, and that the existing platforms will be improved. I wasn't that impressed by the last refurbishment of the platforms and access tunnels. I hope they make a better job of it this time.

S-Bahn · 22 Jul 2019

Whilst "doing a Reading" would be better in the longer term, I get the impression this will be just a few minor tweaks to the existing structure.

Is the old bay platform 5 at the West of 3/4 being brought back into use?

Tom Quinne · 22 Jul 2019

£58 million and not one single extra train will be able to run, just like Birmingham New Street rebuild.

There’s really not a lot you can do to significantly increase carpacity at Cardiff, a remodel of the west end with no directional signalling and additional crossovers at leckwith would help flow of trains, but being in the location it’s in additional platforms will be extremely difficult to build if not impossible.

Tom Quinne · 22 Jul 2019

S-Bahn said:
Whilst "doing a Reading" would be better in the longer term, I get the impression this will be just a few minor tweaks to the existing structure.

Is the old bay platform 5 at the West of 3/4 being brought back into use?

I was thinking about this Saturday night, there is very little that could make efficient use of it, combined with moves in and out locking up the already tight West Junction I don’t think it’s worth it.

Cardiff123 · 22 Jul 2019

There's absolutely no doubt that Cardiff West junction needs a complete re-model. Whilst £58m is better than nothing it won't touch the real work that is needed at Central station and Cardiff West to improve capacity.

R G NOW. · 23 Jul 2019

If you want a 'reading' in Cardiff. Then you will need to find about 580 million from the back of the couch. Cardiff is slightly shorter than reading and that cost about 880 million so I believe the cost was. If NR was to do that then the whole station would be demolished and replaced with all platform lines, with the through ones being removed. It would increase the capacity then, because you would then get an extra island platform with the valley lines ones still there. I think that there is room for 10 through platforms then.

PS. Is the station listed? if it is, then I would feel wales is stuck with what they have now.

Cardiff123 · 23 Jul 2019

R G NOW. said:
If you want a 'reading' in Cardiff. Then you will need to find about 580 million from the back of the couch. Cardiff is slightly shorter than reading and that cost about 880 million so I believe the cost was. If NR was to do that then the whole station would be demolished and replaced with all platform lines, with the through ones being removed. It would increase the capacity then, because you would then get an extra island platform with the valley lines ones still there. I think that there is room for 10 through platforms then.

PS. Is the station listed? if it is, then I would feel wales is stuck with what they have now.

Yes Cardiff Central is listed. I think even the platform canopies may be listed but NR seemed to have made changes to them for the electrification masts no problem, so I'm not sure.
All the platforms currently are through platforms so I'm not sure what you mean when you say all the through platforms would be removed.

PaulHarding150 · 23 Jul 2019

Cardiff123 said:
Yes Cardiff Central is listed. I think even the platform canopies may be listed but NR seemed to have made changes to them for the electrification masts no problem, so I'm not sure.
All the platforms currently are through platforms so I'm not sure what you mean when you say all the through platforms would be removed.

I'm sure I've read that the tiles in the passenger tunnel are, and it wouldn't surprise me if the front of the station is. The rest of the station is somewhat unremarkable though. I'd still like to see more details for this scheme. At least when these plans were proposed in 2014/15: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/new-plans-transform-cardiff-central-9736568 there was some detail on what would happen.

Tom Quinne · 23 Jul 2019

Reading benefited from large areas of railway land either side though, Cardiff is penned i by the Taff at the West and requirement for the up and over Valleys flyover and canal to the East.

There isn’t much realty wrong with Cardiff, flows are separate as they are (unlike Reading) even the West Junction is functional enough, bi directional signalling to Leckwith with high speed crossovers, and the ability to turn back on line B would be a huge advantage though.

Really no need to billion pound knock down and rebuilds.

Llanigraham · 23 Jul 2019

R G NOW. said:
PS. Is the station listed? if it is, then I would feel wales is stuck with what they have now.

Certainly the fascia is , and I believe some other parts.

Cardiff123 · 23 Jul 2019

PaulHarding150 said:
I'm sure I've read that the tiles in the passenger tunnel are, and it wouldn't surprise me if the front of the station is. The rest of the station is somewhat unremarkable though. I'd still like to see more details for this scheme. At least when these plans were proposed in 2014/15: https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/new-plans-transform-cardiff-central-9736568 there was some detail on what would happen.

These are more up to date articles on the plans, but still not a huge amount of detail:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/100m-funding-boost-transform-cardiff-14153504
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/busin...ts-happening-plans-redevelop-cardiff-16022058
It seems all the changes will be below platform level to the subways. The station frontage is definitely listed, hence why it will need to be moved forward and re-built exactly brick by brick to allow Platform 0 to be extended.

PaulHarding150 · 24 Jul 2019

Rebuilding brick by brick a few meters further north is utterly ridiculous. Listed building or not

I've never been but what office/admin space is there in the front of Central Station? We've got a few retail units and the ticket desk are there offices behind and above the ticket hall? The current front of the station could easily be saved and preserved whilst knocking what's behind it down.

Which is what I always assumed would happen with this original plan (the Portland Stone frontage stays, but a new galss front is constructed ten meters or so to the north)
1) https://www.google.com/search?q=new...AUIESgB&biw=1536&bih=723#imgrc=82UXcVgChl47SM:

sefyllian · 24 Jul 2019

PaulHarding150 said:
Rebuilding brick by brick a few meters further north is utterly ridiculous. Listed building or not

I've never been but what office/admin space is there in the front of Central Station? We've got a few retail units and the ticket desk are there offices behind and above the ticket hall? The current front of the station could easily be saved and preserved whilst knocking what's behind it down.

Which is what I always assumed would happen with this original plan (the Portland Stone frontage stays, but a new galss front is constructed ten meters or so to the north)

A new glass front just gives you room for more shops, though, not more platforms.

It's not only the stone frontage that's listed – the booking hall and subways are too I think. And deservedly so! I really like Cardiff Central booking hall and would be very disappointed to see it go. The problem is that the line to Platform 0 is directly behind it (ie. the line runs just above the ticket office in the picture here).

So either you demolish the booking hall, or move the whole thing forward somehow. (Though wouldn't it be easier to widen the bridge over the Taff a bit, and extend Platform 0 to the west instead? Still a huge job, but maybe not quite as mad as trying to move the booking hall…)

Tom Quinne · 24 Jul 2019

The booking hall is rather splendid in its design, a huge shame if it was lost.

You could extend platform zero towards the east by about another two or three cars (making it more or less a IEP length platform by closing the current steps/lift from the ticket hall to a new external access outside M&S.

Even if you didn’t make it a full IEP length platform you could at least make it a good 7/8 car (DMU) length one by doing the above.

Gwenllian2001 · 24 Jul 2019

sefyllian said:
A new glass front just gives you room for more shops, though, not more platforms.

It's not only the stone frontage that's listed – the booking hall and subways are too I think. And deservedly so! I really like Cardiff Central booking hall and would be very disappointed to see it go. The problem is that the line to Platform 0 is directly behind it (ie. the line runs just above the ticket office in the picture here).

So either you demolish the booking hall, or move the whole thing forward somehow. (Though wouldn't it be easier to widen the bridge over the Taff a bit, and extend Platform 0 to the west instead? Still a huge job, but maybe not quite as mad as trying to move the booking hall…)

For those without long memories, some points of interest. The upper picture shows how much things have changed over the years. The left side was occupied by the Booking Office with a seperate window for local lines. The far facing entrance was blocked off and a new Enquiry and Booking Office built, in time for the 1958 Çommonwealth and Empire Games. The Telephone Enquiry Office, (28000) was above this. On the right of the picture there were showrooms for James Howells store and others; The Gower Restaurant and Red Dragon bar and cafeteria. The Gower was closed in about 1961 and the Cafeteria sometime in the 80s. The Bar lived on sometime, as a gay venue, although still patronised by many who weren't bothered because it was still a handy place to get a pint. All this was swept away by Railtrack under their 'restoration' which saw the platform Refreshment Rooms closed and replaced by a meagre, and expensive, facility in the main concourse.

R G NOW. · 24 Jul 2019

Cardiff123 said:
Yes Cardiff Central is listed. I think even the platform canopies may be listed but NR seemed to have made changes to them for the electrification masts no problem, so I'm not sure.
All the platforms currently are through platforms so I'm not sure what you mean when you say all the through platforms would be removed.

Refered to the through freight lines that have no platform along side.

Cardiff Station Upgrade.

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