Do you sit in facing seats knowing that they've had feet on them?

alistairlees · 21 Jul 2019

This has turned out to be a thread with a surprisingly wide range of views.

For what it’s worth:
- If I took this approach I’d never get to sit down on commuter trains to / from London. My commute is almost an hour, every day. The number of times I see people with feet on seats is less than once a week. Probably because the trains are so busy. So I don’t really think about it too much.
- the length of the train makes no difference to whether it happens. I’ll assume the OP meant the length of the journey
- actually I saw a bloke on LNER doing this today. And he had his wheeled case on another seat. A bay of four to himself. The train wasn’t crowded and I couldn’t be bothered to intervene. The on train staff - who must have wondered past at least 10 times - did nothing
- a few weeks ago a (male) passenger in a bay of four on the other side of the aisle asked a female passenger in the same bay to take her feet off the seats. She refused, saying it was doing no harm. Another female then stood up for her. The male gave up. This is on southeastern - there’s a sticker in the window saying “no feet on seats”! I might have intervened but I had actually wise asleep and I was getting off at the next stop
- I don’t like it either, but I doubt seat bacteria are any worse than on computer keyboards / public toilets / restaurants generally, whatever scare story the papers have recently come up with, etc.
- like a few others on here, I undergo a rigorous decontamination procedure when I enter the house. And I certainly don’t let guests sit on my furniture without covering it with protection of some form and incinerating it afterwards.

*not everything in this post is actually true

RailUK Forums

Shaun Jobson · 21 Jul 2019

I don’t use any long commute trains where I would be able to sit with feet up, but on local metro and busses on the few occasions I travel by public transport my feet will go up, not actually onto the seat but on the edge.

Also, I’d imagine what makes seats dirty / less hygienic is the stuff that will come through the fabric covering the rear end of a human. For the most part I find people keep shoes / trainers clean and fresh, I doubt the same could be said for most people’s undercrackers.

trainophile · 21 Jul 2019

Shaun Jobson said:
I don’t use any long commute trains where I would be able to sit with feet up, but on local metro and busses on the few occasions I travel by public transport my feet will go up, not actually onto the seat but on the edge.

Also, I’d imagine what makes seats dirty / less hygienic is the stuff that will come through the fabric covering the rear end of a human. For the most part I find people keep shoes / trainers clean and fresh, I doubt the same could be said for most people’s undercrackers.

Blimey, that's a sweeping judgement. I must admit when I see a young lass wearing a micro skirt I do hope she has underwear on, but that is definitely the exception rather than the rule. Most people keep their outer clothes at least presentably clean.

satisnek · 21 Jul 2019

Just brush the seat with your hand in a haughty manner before you sit down :lol:

EssexGonzo · 22 Jul 2019

Hmm, bizarre thread indeed.

Back to the OP's words: "...knowing that people may well have had their feet on them (the seats)...."

Well we only "know" if we've seem someone with their feet up. If I've actually witnessed that, then of course I'll sit elsewhere if possible. Not because I'm worried about dirt on seats, but because I don't want to sit opposite the type of scumbag who thinks that this is OK. I may not be able to help myself and would rather avoid causing a scene. So that's about the person opposite, not the seat.

If we then assume that the other basis for this argument is about touching a seat that someone else has touched with any part of their body......Hello, it's public transport. If you don't like the thought of other peoples' skin, fluids, dirt, emissions coming into contact with you - which they inevitably will on public transport - stay at home, close the windows and don't leave the house under any circumstances. Occupational hazard.

And is the seat of a scumbag's trousers any cleaner than the sole of his/her shoes? How strong would you think their hygiene might be in that area? Think about it, really.......

kristiang85 · 22 Jul 2019

I never sit on facing seats just because I like legroom, and having someone opposite me severely limits that, whereas in airline seating I can put my legs under the seat in front.

I never once think about the possibility of feet on seats, but it does annoy me when I see people do it. It is antisocial and inconsiderate.

However, I don't mind about dirt - that's what the immune system is for.

Matt_pool · 22 Jul 2019

A few years ago I was on a Merseyrail train to Liverpool Central during rush hour. There was a man sat in an adjacent seat wearing dirty work clothes and he had his boots, that were covered with dried mud, up on the seat. Everyone was too polite to say anything.

The train filled up even more at the next stop with many people being forced to stand like sardines (typical Merseyrail rush hour service then!) and the builder took his feet off the seat, brushed off some of the dry mud and asked a woman if she wanted to sit down. The seat was still covered in mud and she politely declined his offer. He then got a copy of the Metro and put it on the seat and said something like "that's better". She still declined!

A couple of weeks ago on a Northern 156 out of Lime Street a middle aged woman had taken her sandals off and put her sweaty feet up on the seat (it was a hot day!). I was only going a couple of stops and as I got up to get off I said to her "can you take your feet off the seat?". She looked up from her phone, stared at me, then started looking at her phone again!

Last week I was on a Northern 150 at Lime Street. Just before we departed a chavette got on and sat in the adjacent bay of seats and immediately put her feet on the seat. I told her to take her feet down, and she said "why should I?". I replied "because people have to sit there" and I then pointed out the small sticker under the window that said "Bums on seats, feet on floor". She replied, in typical Vicky Pollard fashion "I don't care, and I can't read"!

The guard appeared and her feet were off the seat in a flash. And, as expected, she didn't have a ticket, so had to buy one. Then the guard disappeared and her feet went straight back up. I told her I was getting off soon and I would tell the guard about her feet on the seats. And then came the tirade of verbal abuse from her potty mouth which included getting told I was a nonce! When I got off I told the guard, but I doubt he did anything.

Forget the dirt, it's the complete lack of respect and the self entitlement that some people have that I can't stand.

The builder, with his muddy boots that blatantly soiled the seat, obviously didn't give a toss about anyone but himself, the middle aged woman should have known better, and the chavette, well, I have no words to describe her. If that is our future, then God help us!

Ethano92 · 22 Jul 2019

I think we forget the people who put their feet on seats also have to sit on seats which would have likely had their feet/shoes on them. They must be fully aware of this but still don't care because they won't consider it a big deal hence why the "people have to sit there" argument won't work on them, they're fine with it.

al78 · 22 Jul 2019

Matt_pool said:
A couple of weeks ago on a Northern 156 out of Lime Street a middle aged woman had taken her sandals off and put her sweaty feet up on the seat (it was a hot day!). I was only going a couple of stops and as I got up to get off I said to her "can you take your feet off the seat?". She looked up from her phone, stared at me, then started looking at her phone again!

Ah yes, the smart phone dumb user.

The observable universe is about 47.7 billion light years in radius. A smartphone shrinks this down to half a meter from the users body, so nothing outside this radius can be detected by the user. That is why you get smart phone dumb users nearly walking into you along the high street, they don't see you until you encroach on their visible universe.

bramling · 22 Jul 2019

Matt_pool said:
A few years ago I was on a Merseyrail train to Liverpool Central during rush hour. There was a man sat in an adjacent seat wearing dirty work clothes and he had his boots, that were covered with dried mud, up on the seat. Everyone was too polite to say anything.

The train filled up even more at the next stop with many people being forced to stand like sardines (typical Merseyrail rush hour service then!) and the builder took his feet off the seat, brushed off some of the dry mud and asked a woman if she wanted to sit down. The seat was still covered in mud and she politely declined his offer. He then got a copy of the Metro and put it on the seat and said something like "that's better". She still declined!

A couple of weeks ago on a Northern 156 out of Lime Street a middle aged woman had taken her sandals off and put her sweaty feet up on the seat (it was a hot day!). I was only going a couple of stops and as I got up to get off I said to her "can you take your feet off the seat?". She looked up from her phone, stared at me, then started looking at her phone again!

Last week I was on a Northern 150 at Lime Street. Just before we departed a chavette got on and sat in the adjacent bay of seats and immediately put her feet on the seat. I told her to take her feet down, and she said "why should I?". I replied "because people have to sit there" and I then pointed out the small sticker under the window that said "Bums on seats, feet on floor". She replied, in typical Vicky Pollard fashion "I don't care, and I can't read"!

The guard appeared and her feet were off the seat in a flash. And, as expected, she didn't have a ticket, so had to buy one. Then the guard disappeared and her feet went straight back up. I told her I was getting off soon and I would tell the guard about her feet on the seats. And then came the tirade of verbal abuse from her potty mouth which included getting told I was a nonce! When I got off I told the guard, but I doubt he did anything.

Forget the dirt, it's the complete lack of respect and the self entitlement that some people have that I can't stand.

The builder, with his muddy boots that blatantly soiled the seat, obviously didn't give a toss about anyone but himself, the middle aged woman should have known better, and the chavette, well, I have no words to describe her. If that is our future, then God help us!

If you’re not on-duty staff then it really isn’t your business to be interfering with others, regardless of whether they’re breaching rules, byelaws or whatever. If feet on seats is such a problem then rail travel simply isn’t for you, as any seat you use will almost certainly be subject to this or worse on a fairly regular basis.

Matt_pool · 22 Jul 2019

bramling said:
If you’re not on-duty staff then it really isn’t your business to be interfering with others, regardless of whether they’re breaching rules, byelaws or whatever. If feet on seats is such a problem then rail travel simply isn’t for you, as any seat you use will almost certainly be subject to this or worse on a fairly regular basis.

What a load of rubbish!

It is my business. If we all took that attitude this country would descend into chaos, which it has already started to do.

I was on one of the refurbished Northern 156's today and one the LCD display there was a message that said:

"Please respect other passengers and keep your feet off the seats"!

My train fare goes towards paying for these refurbished trains with reupholstered seats and I'm not going to sit back and let them get wrecked by lazy, ignorant people!

Sprinter107 · 23 Jul 2019

bramling said:
If you’re not on-duty staff then it really isn’t your business to be interfering with others, regardless of whether they’re breaching rules, byelaws or whatever. If feet on seats is such a problem then rail travel simply isn’t for you, as any seat you use will almost certainly be subject to this or worse on a fairly regular basis.

As a fare paying passenger, whonhas to sit on those seats, it most certainly is my business. People shouldnt have their feet upon the seats. They're not provided as foot rests.

bramling · 23 Jul 2019

Matt_pool said:
What a load of rubbish!

It is my business. If we all took that attitude this country would descend into chaos, which it has already started to do.

I was on one of the refurbished Northern 156's today and one the LCD display there was a message that said:

"Please respect other passengers and keep your feet off the seats"!

My train fare goes towards paying for these refurbished trains with reupholstered seats and I'm not going to sit back and let them get wrecked by lazy, ignorant people!

Right, let's spell this out quite clearly.

It's not your train, it's not your property, you don't have any authority, you (presumably) don't have conflict training, you don't have access to a means of summoning help like a personal incident alarm, and most importantly of all you don't have access to a place of safety should things turn nasty.

All these factors combine to make challenging at best pointless, and at worst foolhardy. You've implied elsewhere that staff have given a nonchalant reaction, this will be because they know that (1) the seat is guaranteed to have seen worse than feet on it, and (2) even if the person complies it's quite likely their feet will be straight back once the proverbial back is turned.

What are you going to do, apart from stand there like a lemon, if the person just looks at you and ignores you?

As for an example of how things can turn nasty, look no further than Mr Pomeroy - and in his case he had a lot more reason to find himself in a conflict situation as it wasn't him that initiated it.

If you're really that unhappy, by all means let staff know, or inform the BTP. Otherwise it's one of those things in life that we unfortunately have to suck up. If it's really that much of a problem then go by car.

al78 · 23 Jul 2019

Matt_pool said:
What a load of rubbish!

It is my business. If we all took that attitude this country would descend into chaos, which it has already started to do.

I was on one of the refurbished Northern 156's today and one the LCD display there was a message that said:

"Please respect other passengers and keep your feet off the seats"!

My train fare goes towards paying for these refurbished trains with reupholstered seats and I'm not going to sit back and let them get wrecked by lazy, ignorant people!

I see where you are coming from and it annoys me that people get away with thoughtlessness/don't give a toss attitudes without consequence (karma doesn't exist), but the reality is firstly if you don't have any authority, you have no power over them and the perpetrator can tell you to get stuffed, and there is nothing you can do about it, other than look and feel like a lemon. Secondly, if they take offence and decide to teach you a lesson for interfering, how good are you with your fists? You have to choose your battles carefully, if someone's life is in danger, fair enough to step in (if you can do something), but feet on seats is not something worth risking a beating over.

It sucks, I know, but that is why we have bullies and tossers in society, because they can get away with it and gain without loss most of the time.

trainophile · 23 Jul 2019

It’s just a pity that antisocial people see themselves as beyond decent behaviour. There was a woman of around 50 across the aisle from me yesterday on a Merseyrail train with her sandals on the edge of the facing seat. I just stared at them for a while and eventually she put them down, so they do know it’s wrong.

When I go on my two night little breaks I don’t always take spare jeans to keep the weight down, but I just have to hope I am not going around with my backside covered in invisible dog deposits.

Bletchleyite · 23 Jul 2019

trainophile said:
It’s just a pity that antisocial people see themselves as beyond decent behaviour. There was a woman of around 50 across the aisle from me yesterday on a Merseyrail train with her sandals on the edge of the facing seat. I just stared at them for a while and eventually she put them down, so they do know it’s wrong.

On Merseyrail, of course, if you didn't there's always the chance Byelaw inspectors could have boarded and prosecuted her.

work-traveller · 23 Jul 2019

I've been known to casually spot a seat upon which a passenger has plonked their feet, then to deliberately (but importantly with a smile) insist on taking that seat.

221129 · 23 Jul 2019

Matt_pool said:
What a load of rubbish!

It is my business. If we all took that attitude this country would descend into chaos, which it has already started to do.

I was on one of the refurbished Northern 156's today and one the LCD display there was a message that said:

"Please respect other passengers and keep your feet off the seats"!

My train fare goes towards paying for these refurbished trains with reupholstered seats and I'm not going to sit back and let them get wrecked by lazy, ignorant people!

No one is going to thank you when you get their train cancelled because you have chosen to interfere and end up getting a beating or worse. Having the moral high ground won't protect you from a blade.

radamfi · 23 Jul 2019

221129 said:
No one is going to thank you when you get their train cancelled because you have chosen to interfere and end up getting a beating or worse. Having the moral high ground won't protect you from a blade.

So what are you supposed to do on a DOO train with no guard? Pull the passenger alarm?

221129 · 23 Jul 2019

radamfi said:
So what are you supposed to do on a DOO train with no guard? Pull the passenger alarm?

Why would you? It's not an emergency.

radamfi · 23 Jul 2019

221129 said:
Why would you? It's not an emergency.

So what then?

bramling · 23 Jul 2019

radamfi said:
So what then?

Take it in the chin, just like when one goes on a British holiday and it rains every day! It’s one of those unfortunate things in life that’s not within our direct control.

Seriously, it’s not the end of the world. No reason not to report it to station staff, text the BTP, or complain to the TOC. There are a couple of TOCs who have taken action on this, the obvious example being Merseyrail.

61653 HTAFC · 23 Jul 2019

It's worth noting that even the 142s which have had very few upgrades from new, had a seat flipped round in the "observation bay" section where the toilet is in the other car, in order to prevent feet on seats*. The 144s however retained a facing bay of four in this area (012 excepted).

I'd suggest that this is a sign of a more evolved culture on this side of the Pennines, though unfortunately observation doesn't seem to bear this out!

*= they did however retain facing seats in the middle of the saloon, so... good work I guess!

221129 · 23 Jul 2019

radamfi said:
So what then?

Text the BTP if you're that bothered. But the realistic response will be getting a laugh in the control room.

VT 390 · 23 Jul 2019

radamfi said:
On long trains in SE England it is extremely common for passengers to put feet on the opposite seat where seats face each other. So do you sit in those seats knowing that people may well have had their feet on them?

Why is it more common in the South East than other areas?

bramling · 23 Jul 2019

VT 390 said:
Why is it more common in the South East than other areas?

Possibly because there’s more DOO and some off-peak services have spare seats due to the length needed for peak hours.

One could also add that there’s more trains with facing seats too, comparing something like a 317 or 321 with a sprinter.

NorthernSpirit · 23 Jul 2019

Matt_pool said:
What a load of rubbish!

It is my business. If we all took that attitude this country would descend into chaos, which it has already started to do. I was on one of the refurbished Northern 156's today and one the LCD display there was a message that said:

"Please respect other passengers and keep your feet off the seats"!

My train fare goes towards paying for these refurbished trains with reupholstered seats and I'm not going to sit back and let them get wrecked by lazy, ignorant people!

So going by your logic that by interfering and getting involved, you openly accept that your opening yourself to someone who could either knife or screwdriver you? Best not to get involved and instead turn a blind eye, its not worth getting your head kicked in over or worse.

DarloRich · 23 Jul 2019

satisnek said:
Just brush the seat with your hand in a haughty manner before you sit down

Whist tutting?

Ps Best. Answer. Ever.

Sprinter107 · 23 Jul 2019

It can be quite dangerous now, as a lot of people have rightly said, to become involved, and a life changing injury is definitely not be worth it, however, where do you draw the line ? Whilst there have always been people who have used seats as a foot rest, it is getting more common. Is this because people are not saying anything, and allowing it to happen. Are increasing amounts of anti social behaviour on both buses and trains due to people allowing it to happen.

NorthernSpirit · 23 Jul 2019

Sprinter107 said:
It can be quite dangerous now, as a lot of people have rightly said, to become involved, and a life changing injury is definitely not be worth it, however, where do you draw the line ? Whilst there have always been people who have used seats as a foot rest, it is getting more common. Is this because people are not saying anything, and allowing it to happen. Are increasing amounts of anti social behaviour on both buses and trains due to people allowing it to happen.

I think its down to the recent increase in knife crime and people becoming more red pilled* and aware of what could happen should they risk asking someone to move their feet / bags / other items off the seat next or opposite them and their reaction.

*:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

Do you sit in facing seats knowing that they've had feet on them?

Established Member

RailUK Forums

New Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member