Film review of EC258 International Train from Prague to Usti nad Labem

Enjoy! I really enjoyed this trip and would recommend it.

Seconded! EC258 has the advantage of being lightly loaded as it runs late in the day - reports say it will be withdrawn between Usti n L and Dresden from December, and replaced by a Railjet to Berlin an hour earlier.

stuartmoss said:

Enjoy! I really enjoyed this trip and would recommend it.

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It's definitely a lovely scenic trip - I did a day-trip outing to Dresden when in Prague a year or two back, though on a regular local connection, not a plush modern EC with restaurant car and so on. Though the train I was on did have nice cosy old-style compartments. And of course it was a cheap ride in British terms!

30907 said:

Seconded! EC258 has the advantage of being lightly loaded as it runs late in the day - reports say it will be withdrawn between Usti n L and Dresden from December, and replaced by a Railjet to Berlin an hour earlier.

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A Railjet to Berlin? Didn’t know they operated as far north as Berlin.

Here is another film of trains at Usti nad Labem:

Craig2601 said:

A Railjet to Berlin? Didn’t know they operated as far north as Berlin.

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No they don't - yet - but it's in the draft timetable.

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stuartmoss said:

Enjoy! I really enjoyed this trip and would recommend it.

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Did you stay around Usti? I wonder what it's really like because some Czechs told me it has a certain reputation as a rough place, but I've never been there.
My guess is it was a mainly German-speaking city before WW2 perhaps?

70014IronDuke said:

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Did you stay around Usti? I wonder what it's really like because some Czechs told me it has a certain reputation as a rough place, but I've never been there.
My guess is it was a mainly German-speaking city before WW2 perhaps?

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Yes, a lot of the Czech-German border area was a mix of German and Czech speakers before WW2, and was annexed by Hitler's Germany before the war. After the war, when the borders were re-established much as before, many German speakers were expelled. (The same happened in many places in Europe, of course. In Vojvodina, a region in the north of Serbia in what was Yugoslavia, it was trilingual before the war - Serbo-Croat/Hungarian/German [a former colleague of mine grew up there then, and explained how the little kids in her town spoke a mix of the 3 languages in the street, without even realising until later that it was 3 separate languages], but after WW2 most of the German speakers were booted out and it became an officially bilingual semi-autonomous region of the Serbian constituent republic of a federal Yugoslavia.)

And remember that prior to the First World War (in Kafka's time) Prague itself was in many ways trilingual - with Czech, a sizeable German-speaking community, and also large Jewish community speaking (I guess) Yiddish.

When I first went to Prague in 1987, a lot of the older people could still speak German

gordonthemoron said:

When I first went to Prague in 1987, a lot of the older people could still speak German

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Sure. German was the lingua franca of central Europe up to 1945. And in sectors such as haulage, stayed that way into the 90s. Maybe still is.
If Hitler hadn't tried to enforce it, it would probably have stayed that way.

AlbertBeale said:

Yes, a lot of the Czech-German border area was a mix of German and Czech speakers before WW2, and was annexed by Hitler's Germany before the war. After the war, when the borders were re-established much as before, many German speakers were expelled. (The same happened in many places in Europe, of course. In Vojvodina, a region in the north of Serbia in what was Yugoslavia, it was trilingual before the war - Serbo-Croat/Hungarian/German [a former colleague of mine grew up there then, and explained how the little kids in her town spoke a mix of the 3 languages in the street, without even realising until later that it was 3 separate languages], but after WW2 most of the German speakers were booted out and it became an officially bilingual semi-autonomous region of the Serbian constituent republic of a federal Yugoslavia.)

And remember that prior to the First World War (in Kafka's time) Prague itself was in many ways trilingual - with Czech, a sizeable German-speaking community, and also large Jewish community speaking (I guess) Yiddish.

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According to Wiki, it's German name was Aussig. Approx 75% German speaking in 1930.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ústí_nad_Labem

About Usti - there are some nice things to do there, such as the cable car that goes from the roof of the shopping centre to the Vetruse hill. The project itself was a classic case of political corruption, but it does provide a nice way to the top of the hill without having to walk there. The cable car is actually completely useless due to the low capacity (only 120 people per hour), although it would be possible to triple that to 360 people/hour if it was worth doing so. However, the fascinating thing is the way that it integrates into the shopping centre, as well as the way that it crosses busy roads and the Elbe river.

The zoo is also quite nice, as it has spacious paddocks on the side of a huge hill. There's not much else there, though it's an interesting enough place to visit for 2 days. There are also some pretty towns nearby to visit, such as Teplice, Lovosice and Litomierice.

Apart from that, the bad reputation that the city has comes from the 1990's. After the end of Communism, Usti became a hub of human trafficking and prostitution, with the old road from Altenburg to Teplice notorious for the huge amounts of brothels and prostitutes lining the road. Combined with a large Roma population that was poorly integrated, and the city developed a really bad reputation that it didn't deserve. The prostitution/brothels have almost all gone today, and the Roma minority are more integrated into the life of the city.

About German - English has very much displaced German these days. Finding a person under 40 that speaks German isn't so easy, except in border towns, and English is the default language when communicating in this part of the world. I speak Polish, and I don't use English to Czechs unless I really don't understand them. With Slovaks, I won't use English at all, because around 70% of words are mutually intelligible and the grammar is very similar to Polish. However, historically, German dominated in the Czech lands (be careful with this - the Czech lands are what is known as Bohemia in the Czech Republic, and Moravia / Silesia have different identities).

As mentioned about haulage - because of companies from the CEE now dominating that sector, German has lost out considerably. English is the default second language in companies, and most truck drivers are expected to at least be able to understand English when going abroad. It's actually quite amazing how much German lost out between 1989-2019, but that was a very conscious decision by educational ministries to emphasise English back in the early 1990's.

Cloud Strife said:

About German - English has very much displaced German these days. Finding a person under 40 that speaks German isn't so easy, except in border towns, and English is the default language when communicating in this part of the world.

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Noticed that too when I visited Prague a few years ago. Also, trying to speak russian is not a good idea at all. I tried, thinking it would be a good opportunity to practice... Had to make damn sure they understood I was not coming from Russia.

Cloud Strife said:

About Usti - there are some nice things to do there, such as the cable car that goes from the roof of the shopping centre to the Vetruse hill. The project itself was a classic case of political corruption, but it does provide a nice way to the top of the hill without having to walk there. The cable car is actually completely useless due to the low capacity (only 120 people per hour), ...

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The corruption bit was... ? Sponsored by the EU? A nice contract to the mayor's friend's construction company or the like?

At least it works!! The one in Iasi (Romania) was ditto regarding the corruption and has NEVER worked, so a trauted friend informed me earlier this week. (same deal, EU sponsored, I believe).

Cloud Strife said:

The zoo is also quite nice, ... as it has spacious paddocks on the side of a huge hill. There's not much else there, though it's an interesting enough place to visit for 2 days. There are also some pretty towns nearby to visit, such as Teplice, Lovosice and Litomierice.

Apart from that, the bad reputation that the city has comes from the 1990's. After the end of Communism, Usti became a hub of human trafficking and prostitution, with the old road from Altenburg to Teplice notorious for the huge amounts of brothels and prostitutes lining the road. ...

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I'm glad to hear Usti has some redeeming features. I must try to make it that way sometime. As for the sex business post 1989, it seemed to be everywhere in the former Commie bloc, but especially on the roads towards Germany. It existed prior to taht, of course. I remember hitching a ride throught northern Greece c 1984 and the lorry drivers (who happened to be British) going on about the girls available in CZ. But I suspect it was much less blatant.

Cloud Strife said:

About German - English has very much displaced German these days. Finding a person under 40 that speaks German isn't so easy, except in border towns, and English is the default language when communicating in this part of the world. I speak Polish, and I don't use English to Czechs unless I really don't understand them. With Slovaks, I won't use English at all, because around 70% of words are mutually intelligible and the grammar is very similar to Polish. However, historically, German dominated in the Czech lands (be careful with this - the Czech lands are what is known as Bohemia in the Czech Republic, and Moravia / Silesia have different identities). ...

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There were plenty of German speakers in parts of Moravia too, of course. The brutal ethnic cleansing around Brno post WW2 is infamous. I remember being told that the delightful S Moravian town of Mikulov was almost empty after the war, though I'm not sure if that was largely down to Nazi deportations of a largely Jewish population.

Interestingly, in tourist-related contexts both CZ and SK (hotels, restaurants...), I have found that German works better than English in areas bordering Bavaria and Austria. I guess this is simply because the bulk of the "western" tourist trade is German-speaking? I don't know the northern borderlands well enough - the biggest cities are different.

On the general topic of political changes and linguistic sensitivities, I found Simon Winder's tome Danubia a good and entertaining read (as is his earlier Germania).

MarcVD said:

Noticed that too when I visited Prague a few years ago. Also, trying to speak russian is not a good idea at all. I tried, thinking it would be a good opportunity to practice... Had to make damn sure they understood I was not coming from Russia.

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They seem to have got used to Russian in Karlovy Vary - menus there in Russian and signs on hotels too. Not sure about Marianske Lazne. How exactly did the locals react if/when you tried to speak Russian?

70014IronDuke said:

They seem to have got used to Russian in Karlovy Vary - menus there in Russian and signs on hotels too. Not sure about Marianske Lazne. How exactly did the locals react if/when you tried to speak Russian?

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KV is slightly different, because the Russian connection to the spas goes back well before the Revolution (fairly sure Edward VII the Kaiser and the Tsar all went there...). There was a through sleeper from Moscow until fairly recently too (and one from Kosice even more recently, but that's different!)

70014IronDuke said:

They seem to have got used to Russian in Karlovy Vary - menus there in Russian and signs on hotels too. Not sure about Marianske Lazne. How exactly did the locals react if/when you tried to speak Russian?

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Very rude or simply ignoring. I switched to english quite quickly. Later I witnessed a russian couple in a restaurant, arrived together with me, at the same time. We ordered almost together too. When I finished eating, they were still waiting to be served...

MarcVD said:

Very rude or simply ignoring. I switched to english quite quickly. Later I witnessed a russian couple in a restaurant, arrived together with me, at the same time. We ordered almost together too. When I finished eating, they were still waiting to be served...

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Interesting. Thank you. I wonder how much this disdainful attitude is down to the historical past, ie post WW2 and the horror years of communism, including 68 - an how much is down to modern interaction experience?

I honestly forget who it was, but one hotelier in the region (possibly in Croatia) told me about a year ago that "I don't want Russians." When I asked why not, he said something along the lines of "they are always far too noisy and get smashed out of their heads every night", greatly annoying other guests.

While I have not experienced that kind of Muscovite behaviour, I have experienced Russian "I'm an important person, get out of my way or else" attitude by their security forces - a "power is all" attitidue that remains embedded in modern Russian culture, and I wonder if it is this, rather than resentments from 1945-90 that fuel the reactions that your experienced.

I am sure, of course, there are many perfectly decent Russians out there who behave in a perfectly civilised way (I know at least two who I'm sure do exactly this), but I do get the feeling that it is modern day behaviour that is shaping peoples' perceptions rather than the old resentments.

Sorry I'm late coming back to this, been offline for the week on a Med Cruise. I found Usti to be a decent place by day, but a little rough at night, street drinking (mostly Roma looking young men) was evident, and twice in the early hours I was awoken by shouting in the streets by drunk young men. The cable car is very nice and there are great views of the river and railway. English was not spoken at all in my hotel, but I knew enough German to get by, which was understood. English was spoken by the younger people working in bars. Buses are everywhere and very well used, I'm guessing car ownership isn't that high. The average tourist in Usti was either a 20 something backpacker using Usti as a stop off location between Prague and Berlin or Germans in their fifties travelling along the Elbe. The trains are plentiful and there is a good variety and many decent places to view them from. In short I liked Usti, and just for the train views would go there again at some point.

stuartmoss said:

Enjoy! I really enjoyed this trip and would recommend it.

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I have only now watched the video. Did you get sponsorship from the CKD or Czech Tourism?

Was it on a Saturday or Sunday? It definitely makes the route along the Elbe (?) look very pleasant. And rail travel through the Prague suburbs is always interesting. I'm not sure that I'd term the meal 'a bargain' except by UK standards, but decent value for the comfort of a train, I agree.

70014IronDuke said:

I have only now watched the video. Did you get sponsorship from the CKD or Czech Tourism?

Was it on a Saturday or Sunday? It definitely makes the route along the Elbe (?) look very pleasant. And rail travel through the Prague suburbs is always interesting. I'm not sure that I'd term the meal 'a bargain' except by UK standards, but decent value for the comfort of a train, I agree.

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Haha no sponsorship! It was a Wednesday evening. The meal and drinks were definitely a bargain by UK price comparison.

Here is a general film that I made around Usti

Here is a review of the hotel that I stopped in, the Interhotel Bohemia

There are some abandoned former German owned entire streets in the area around Zapad station, its an eery place to walk to say the least.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.6...4!1sQ-qFt0XLTPWUbch3iDbC8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Cracking brewery in the town center too.