cnjb8
Established Member
Why don't you see 66s or 60s working passenger trains? I have always wondered why they don't as they are perfectly good locos
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Loco hauled passenger trains
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apk55
Member
No ETH supply
pdeaves
Established Member
They do (charters)! I assume you meant regular, scheduled work in which case they are too slow. They may be good locos but are only good in certain circumstances. You wouldn't expect a drag racing car to haul heavy loads or a tractor to run fast. 66s and 60s are good at freight, not passenger.
cnjb8
Established Member
Makes sense. Thanks
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Powerful enough certainly, but being designed for freight they are more adept at towing heavy loads than running at speed on mainlines (only 65-75mph locos). They also cannot supply power to coaches for heating, lighting, air-con etc as they don't have ETH equipment as mentioned.
I believe 66s have worked charters but they aren't suited to normal passenger work.
driver9000
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Booked power for the Royal Scotsman is a 66 which carries a generator van so ETS isn't really an issue.
Because they are freight only locos and designed as such. Back in the good old days you used to have "mixed traffic" locos which could haul both passenger and freight trains e.g. Class 87.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
True, but as a charter service the 75mph top speed isn't an issue either as such, for regular scheduled services you really need top speeds of more 90-100 at least for the mainline; for things like the Wherry lines and Rhymney services linespeed is only 60 so you could probably use 60s or 66s if the route RA is high enough.
Bertie the bus
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Just like the 68s and 88s today then. Considering the 60s date back to the good old days, as do 56s and 58s which were also freight only, and even 55s which were passenger only, with the odd parcel train, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
66s have dropped onto occasional passenger trains when things have gone wrong in the past.
Unfortunately though
1.there ain't very many loco hauled services left and
2. Where there are LHS's,if something does go wrong,its usually the first decision of the TOC to cancel the train altogether.
Unless the failed train is rescueable,then it gets terminated at the next station and only then if a rescue loco is available.
As said above. Years ago there were far more loco hauled trains and far more mixed traffic locos that could be used to haul them.
Privatisation hasn't helped either.
One day of note,being stranded at Warrington Bank Quay behind a class 86,and not being able to be rescued by anything stabled at the station or at Arpley Yard!
After about an hours wait for the rescue loco to arrive from Crewe,it was decided that it was easier to terminate the service altogether!
It seems it's cheaper to cancel a train than it is to hire a rescue loco to keep it in service!
That's when we see the politics come in!
Unfortunately though
1.there ain't very many loco hauled services left and
2. Where there are LHS's,if something does go wrong,its usually the first decision of the TOC to cancel the train altogether.
Unless the failed train is rescueable,then it gets terminated at the next station and only then if a rescue loco is available.
As said above. Years ago there were far more loco hauled trains and far more mixed traffic locos that could be used to haul them.
Privatisation hasn't helped either.
One day of note,being stranded at Warrington Bank Quay behind a class 86,and not being able to be rescued by anything stabled at the station or at Arpley Yard!
After about an hours wait for the rescue loco to arrive from Crewe,it was decided that it was easier to terminate the service altogether!
It seems it's cheaper to cancel a train than it is to hire a rescue loco to keep it in service!
That's when we see the politics come in!
even in steam days you had locos designed, at the very least, as freight, passenger or mixed.
delt1c
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The difference between nationalisation, sectorisation and privatisation . Under Nationalistion BR had plans to adapt 56's for Cross Country services. This was dropped due to sectorisation .
Photohunter71
Member
I never knew that! That certainly would have been interesting! I've only seen them rescue a couple of failed HST's in the mid 1980's 56 125 and 56 116 were the 2 occasions I remember at Craigentinny!
delt1c
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It was a p[lan looked into by BR in the 80's which involved redamping them to increase maximum speed and fitting with ETH
Steamie Boxes
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There’s a picture somewhere that shows a shed pulling a train along the North Wales line, I’ll see if I can find it
Steamie Boxes
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supervc-10
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How is power delivered to the coaches? I thought the 66s didn't have any electrical train supply.
It was a time when even non-ETH-fitted 37s could show up on these services if required. I guess it was better to run them like that than not at all.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Those coaches aren't air-conditioned, so no need for ETS for that. Also no central door locking back then. Lighting powered by batteries in the coaches I believe, and heating not functioning. Hopefully it wasn't the middle of winter!
ac6000cw
Established Member
Years ago, before air-con coaches became standard, in the summer (when heating wasn't necessary), 'no-heat' freight diesels would routinely be used to haul summer Saturday extras, excursions and as substitutes for failed or otherwise unavailable train-heat capable locos. There were many 'no-heat' diesels around back then, even more so after steam-heating was discontinued so only ETH-fitted locos could provide it.
'Mixed traffic' sounds like a good idea, but in practice it compromised the performance for heavy-haul freight work, hence later locos like the 56's, 58's and 60's being lower geared and heavier to maximise their haulage capability. I doubt BR used 47's on heavy freights because they were the most suitable, it was because they didn't have anything better...(except using pairs of smaller locos, to get more powered axles on the job).
'Mixed traffic' sounds like a good idea, but in practice it compromised the performance for heavy-haul freight work, hence later locos like the 56's, 58's and 60's being lower geared and heavier to maximise their haulage capability. I doubt BR used 47's on heavy freights because they were the most suitable, it was because they didn't have anything better...(except using pairs of smaller locos, to get more powered axles on the job).
FFFC 57
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Electric train heating (ETH) has been renamed Electric train supply (ETS). The loco supplied power only for the heaters inside the coaches, the lighting came straight off the batteries charged via a belt driven generator from the axle. Later when the Mk2D's arrived ETH became ETS and the loco powered a Motor alternator (MA) providing power for Air conditioning and battery charging.
JohnMcL7
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When there were issues with the 73/9's, the 66's were hauling the Highlander using the 73's for ETS:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/42802...tsn3q-2gqmdsj-2gqmcho-2gqmbKX-2gqkTj3-2gqmaHG
https://www.flickr.com/photos/42802...tsn3q-2gqmdsj-2gqmcho-2gqmbKX-2gqkTj3-2gqmaHG
ac6000cw
Established Member
Correct, but note that the coach-end data panels still had an 'ETH index' (not ETS index) well into the MK3 coach era. There is a selection of data panel photos here - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/i...ways-codes-on-br-coaches-mk1-mk2-mk3-coaches/ including Mk2F and Mk3's
FFFC 57
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Thanks and it's funny you should say that, as I noticed on the data panel of the class 68 it is still referred to as ETH index. I'm sure it will be the same on the mk5's too I shall have to check.
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