Edinburgh Tram developments

reb0118 · 5 Jun 2019

What are the forums' thoughts on using some of the disused rail alignments in Edinburgh for tram extensions?

For example the former branches to Corstorphine (it would probably be impossible to reach the old terminus but a halt near the Zoo could potentially be profitable) and Barnton (Davidson's Mains would be the practical limit IMO).

RailUK Forums

edwin_m · 5 Jun 2019

reb0118 said:
What are the forums' thoughts on using some of the disused rail alignments in Edinburgh for tram extensions?

For example the former branches to Corstorphine (it would probably be impossible to reach the old terminus but a halt near the Zoo could potentially be profitable) and Barnton (Davidson's Mains would be the practical limit IMO).

Various proposal would have used the old line northwards from Haymarket to create a circular route to Leith, as a later phase of the scheme.

VioletEclipse · 10 Jun 2019

reb0118 said:
What are the forums' thoughts on using some of the disused rail alignments in Edinburgh for tram extensions?

For example the former branches to Corstorphine (it would probably be impossible to reach the old terminus but a halt near the Zoo could potentially be profitable) and Barnton (Davidson's Mains would be the practical limit IMO).

I would very much support that idea. It would also reopen a lot of derelict stations that haven't been used since the 1960s.

och aye · 11 Jun 2019

axlecounter said:
Thank you @och aye !

You're welcome.

Lets hope that the completion of the line to Newhaven goes smoothly, otherwise I doubt they'll be much public support for extending the system any further!

kidman123 · 13 Jun 2019

och aye said:
You're welcome.

Lets hope that the completion of the line to Newhaven goes smoothly, otherwise I doubt they'll be much public support for extending the system any further!

Unfortunately you will still have the same people complaining about the distruption with the works who complained the first time round and who is still constantly complaining. One thing though the mistakes would have been learnt from first time round. But people need to remember that large scale construction/infrastructure jobs does come at a cost and price but it is only 3 years though.

kidman123 · 13 Jun 2019

VioletEclipse said:
I would very much support that idea. It would also reopen a lot of derelict stations that haven't been used since the 1960s.

Few line that would be well served by the trams could be the granton to murryfield also via the old gas works.
Old corstophine line you can get this as far as near to the old station as possible and have a terminal there.
You can go down the old preistfield line via Easter road to the old rubbish transfer etc. Plus medowbank way towards Portobello and musselburgh then there's the old lines to penicuik bonnyrigg etc.

och aye · 13 Jun 2019

Balfarg1982 said:
Few line that would be well served by the trams could be the granton to murryfield also via the old gas works.
Old corstophine line you can get this as far as near to the old station as possible and have a terminal there.
You can go down the old preistfield line via Easter road to the old rubbish transfer etc. Plus medowbank way towards Portobello and musselburgh then there's the old lines to penicuik bonnyrigg etc.

preistfield line :?:

duffield · 13 Jun 2019

Balfarg1982 said:
Unfortunately you will still have the same people complaining about the distruption with the works who complained the first time round and who is still constantly complaining. One thing though the mistakes would have been learnt from first time round. But people need to remember that large scale construction/infrastructure jobs does come at a cost and price but it is only 3 years though.

My memory may be faultly but I thought that some/all of the enabling works (moving of services) for the line to Newhaven had been done before that section was cancelled. If that's true it could be a lot less disruptive than starting from scratch.
Is this right?

kidman123 · 13 Jun 2019

duffield said:
My memory may be faultly but I thought that some/all of the enabling works (moving of services) for the line to Newhaven had been done before that section was cancelled. If that's true it could be a lot less disruptive than starting from scratch.
Is this right?

Yes all down Leith walk and along ocian terminal has had prep work completed such as underground drainage pipes wires but the problem there has is roads has been built and at Newhaven there has been housing built over this so this requirement fir investigate work needs done. But in 3 bit years we can get down to Newhaven then hopefully onwards towards granton and that.

kidman123 · 13 Jun 2019

och aye said:
preistfield line

Sorry ment the old line by medowbank

takno · 13 Jun 2019

duffield said:
My memory may be faultly but I thought that some/all of the enabling works (moving of services) for the line to Newhaven had been done before that section was cancelled. If that's true it could be a lot less disruptive than starting from scratch.
Is this right?

The Leith walk section is partly done, so it should be *less* disruptive, but I don't think it was finished, or possibly wasn't good enough. The main causes for complaint on Leith walk is that they've not long finished doing the tidying-up works after leaving the road in a state for years after the enabling works. The tidying-up itself overran by months after the contractor went bust. Another period of disruption will be unwelcome at best, and any confidence that things will go smoothly evaporated a while ago. To add insult to injury there will be fewer tram stops than there are bus stops at the minute, so shop owners and punters on the street itself will probably be putting up with all of this in return for a slightly worse service long term. If I lived there my blood would probably be boiling etc

kidman123 · 13 Jun 2019

takno said:
The Leith walk section is partly done, so it should be *less* disruptive, but I don't think it was finished, or possibly wasn't good enough. The main causes for complaint on Leith walk is that they've not long finished doing the tidying-up works after leaving the road in a state for years after the enabling works. The tidying-up itself overran by months after the contractor went bust. Another period of disruption will be unwelcome at best, and any confidence that things will go smoothly evaporated a while ago. To add insult to injury there will be fewer tram stops than there are bus stops at the minute, so shop owners and punters on the street itself will probably be putting up with all of this in return for a slightly worse service long term. If I lived there my blood would probably be boiling etc

Unfortunately for any large infrastructure work there will be distruption but the trams are doing this in sections not in a full go. So it's going to be a jigsaw as for stops and tram stops it's the same in Manchester and Nottingham etc that there's more stops for buses than trams.

takno · 13 Jun 2019

Balfarg1982 said:
Unfortunately for any large infrastructure work there will be distruption but the trams are doing this in sections not in a full go. So it's going to be a jigsaw as for stops and tram stops it's the same in Manchester and Nottingham etc that there's more stops for buses than trams.

I'm not saying the council are doing it wrong, and I don't live there myself. It's just inevitable that people down there are going to be annoyed. 2+ of road closures and nonsense at the top end building the golden poo won't have done much for their tempers either tbh

och aye · 15 Jun 2019

kidman123 said:
Sorry ment the old line by medowbank

Ah, I think its the Powderhall branch you meant.

kidman123 · 15 Jun 2019

Yeah that's the one I ment

kidman123 · 19 Jun 2019

A wee thought although the trams in Edinburgh are council owned but talking to my boss today and he was saying that it might be better for the Edinburgh if a second tram operator started as a private company for example say first or stagecoach and have a competition. it might be better for pricing or even extending the line out to where ever.

reb0118 · 19 Jun 2019

A benefit of the trams will be the ultimate formation of a network - this will come albeit slowly at present. A network works better with integrated working & fares. Having a separate operation running an alternative tram line potentially negates this somewhat.

takno · 19 Jun 2019

kidman123 said:
A wee thought although the trams in Edinburgh are council owned but talking to my boss today and he was saying that it might be better for the Edinburgh if a second tram operator started as a private company for example say first or stagecoach and have a competition. it might be better for pricing or even extending the line out to where ever.

It's an interesting conclusion to draw in a city where a council-owned company runs one of the most successful bus services in the country with no competition whatsoever, but hey, it would make things more exciting I suppose. I'm not saying your boss is an idiot, as I've never heard his opinions on anything else.

Deerfold · 21 Jun 2019

kidman123 said:
A wee thought although the trams in Edinburgh are council owned but talking to my boss today and he was saying that it might be better for the Edinburgh if a second tram operator started as a private company for example say first or stagecoach and have a competition. it might be better for pricing or even extending the line out to where ever.

How would this help?

Presumably there's no extra lines being built.
Does your boss expect the same frequency split between the 2 companies or for the frequency overall to remain the same.
Would tickets be valid on both companies or would people have to let roughly every other tram pass if they had the wrong ticket?
If fares are valid on both, where's the competition? Money split by performance?
If they're on the same lines they'll impact each other's performance - presumably both companies will then need departments to track this and appeal if delays are inaccurately allocated.
Will there need to be another independent company to deal with this? Who pays for that?

If extra parallel lines are to be built, good luck with explaining the disruption to the people of Edinburgh.

woodhouse122 · 23 Jun 2019

I was in Edinburgh on tuesday having a bit of a bash and whilst it was no problem to cross the road at york place tram stop to catch a bus to Ocean terminal (on one of the fabby new E400XL buses) in a few years time it will be great to get a tram all the way there without changing

kidman123 · 25 Jun 2019

Deerfold said:
How would this help?

Presumably there's no extra lines being built.
Does your boss expect the same frequency split between the 2 companies or for the frequency overall to remain the same.
Would tickets be valid on both companies or would people have to let roughly every other tram pass if they had the wrong ticket?
If fares are valid on both, where's the competition? Money split by performance?
If they're on the same lines they'll impact each other's performance - presumably both companies will then need departments to track this and appeal if delays are inaccurately allocated.
Will there need to be another independent company to deal with this? Who pays for that?

If extra parallel lines are to be built, good luck with explaining the disruption to the people of Edinburgh.

I re asked my boss and he ment that the trams should go private or be transferred over to ScotRail to run bring it under the arm of transport for Scotland instead of Lothian buses. This would mean that there would be no drain on public finances. Plus for the workers they would be getting a better rate for there wages.

geoffk · 25 Jun 2019

Would a tram-train on the South Suburban line make sense? There seems to be a fair amount of freight/empty stock using the line and mostly at peak commuter times. Despite the circuitous route a tram train could offer quicker journey times than congested roads into the city centre.

kidman123 · 25 Jun 2019

That will be ideal according to the tram experts I speak to this could be a option to take the tram down to the eri/niddrie and Portobello areas of Edinburgh without major distruption. Only problem I can think of is the ole on the sub.

Deerfold · 25 Jun 2019

kidman123 said:
I re asked my boss and he ment that the trams should go private or be transferred over to ScotRail to run bring it under the arm of transport for Scotland instead of Lothian buses. This would mean that there would be no drain on public finances. Plus for the workers they would be getting a better rate for there wages.

So something completely to different to having a second company as competition?

Not sure how it would be less of a drain on public finances as part of Transport for Scotland - especially if he expects the workers to be better paid too.

Again, I'd ask him "How would this help"?

sng7 · 25 Jun 2019

geoffk said:
Would a tram-train on the South Suburban line make sense? There seems to be a fair amount of freight/empty stock using the line and mostly at peak commuter times. Despite the circuitous route a tram train could offer quicker journey times than congested roads into the city centre.

The real problem with the tram train is that it is not straightforward to link the suburban loop to the trams. In the west the suburban loop ends near murrayfield stadium but on the opposite side of the tracks to the tram line. A quick look at google maps suggests making a connection there would be very difficult between the roads, railway, the stadium, the scotrail depot and the distilleries all getting in the way. At the east it doesn't look much better, the suburban loop joins the main route to the city centre in portobello. This would require either extending the trams out to there or improving railway capacity until you get closer to Edinburgh (say meadowbank) and then extending the tram line to there. Either way its not going to be cheap or easy.

YorkshireBear · 25 Jun 2019

Just caught it for the first time. Nice trams, very comfortable actually. Ride smooth too.

Just feels like a simple operation whereas all cities need a network of this sort of transport not a simple out and back line.

I can certainly see potential though.

Meerkat · 27 Jun 2019

och aye said:
Future tram stop for Edinburgh 205. There's a video of it on their website:

http://edinburgh205.co.uk/

That plan....a “future light controlled access”. They aren’t seriously planning on putting traffic lights on the A8 are they??!!

90019 · 27 Jun 2019

I assume it'll only be on one side of the carriageway, like the lights for RBS on the other side, with just a left turn available.

Meerkat · 27 Jun 2019

90019 said:
I assume it'll only be on one side of the carriageway, like the lights for RBS on the other side, with just a left turn available.

Just build a proper sliproad!

ejstubbs · 23 Jul 2019

reb0118 said:
What are the forums' thoughts on using some of the disused rail alignments in Edinburgh for tram extensions?

I have wondered whether the old Caley line to Balerno could be used for a tram line to take the pressure off the 44? OK you'd likely lose/restrict access to the Water of Leith Walkway but that's basically the same as was originally proposed for the Newhaven 'loop' (Phase 1b?) using the North Edinburgh Path Network. And there's a sight more residential development going in along the WoL than down at the Waterfront at the moment. Bit tricky linking it back from ~Longstone to join up with the current 'network' though. (Although I suppose it might also be possible to build a, you know, railway along there...)

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