Bletchleyite
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from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nd-hand-emus-from-the-uk.186724/#post-4118741
Any photos of the Chinese ones at all?
Any photos of the Chinese ones at all?
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BREL International coaches in China
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RailWonderer
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Railway_EMU100_series
You can look at some pictures and do reading around it, only 13 were built, top speed 75mph, but another market outside of Thailand/ South Africa that chose to use the British loading gauge. You would think that if you’re building a new rail link why go for a restrictive UK gauge and instead do what continental Europe did? Anyway, that’s all I could find.
You can look at some pictures and do reading around it, only 13 were built, top speed 75mph, but another market outside of Thailand/ South Africa that chose to use the British loading gauge. You would think that if you’re building a new rail link why go for a restrictive UK gauge and instead do what continental Europe did? Anyway, that’s all I could find.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Cheers, those are very obviously Mk2s! Yes, I'm surprised anywhere goes for the UK standard for a complete new-build - the Thailand airport line with its 350s and Gautrain are most surprising.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
"hundreds/thousands of Mk2s running around in China" had me gripped, but I see it's actually 65 coaches in Taiwan.
Worthy, but of a past age.
Worthy, but of a past age.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And I guess not technically "BREL International coaches" as those are later and Mk3-derived, but instead a Mk2 derivative.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
These were both design-build-operate type projects where the supplier simply had to deliver a route complete with trains at a competitive price. They would have had no interest in compatibility with anything else nearby or in how the trains would be replaced at end of life, as that would be beyond their concession period. They probably went for UK gauge because that was was the design they had capacity to build at the time, and for the benefit of high platforms and the slight saving in structure costs.
Gag Halfrunt
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(Delurking, hello.)
The OP was referring to mainland China, not Taiwan.
The Chinese Wikipedia entry for 25 Series passenger carriages (read using Google Translate) says that in 1989 BREL built three prototypes for China as part of a licensing deal for up to 1,500 carriages. These 25O Series carriages, which had BT-10 bogies, were the basis for the 25A Series built in China.
The Mark 3-based International Train prototypes were built around the same time as the project for China and also had BT-10 bogies, so perhaps there is a direct design connection between them and the 25O cars.
The OP was referring to mainland China, not Taiwan.
The Chinese Wikipedia entry for 25 Series passenger carriages (read using Google Translate) says that in 1989 BREL built three prototypes for China as part of a licensing deal for up to 1,500 carriages. These 25O Series carriages, which had BT-10 bogies, were the basis for the 25A Series built in China.
The Mark 3-based International Train prototypes were built around the same time as the project for China and also had BT-10 bogies, so perhaps there is a direct design connection between them and the 25O cars.
Bletchleyite
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Cheers. They don't look much like BREL International Train prototypes, do they?
Gag Halfrunt
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They were no doubt designed to meet existing Chinese standards for dimensions and layout, etc, so the bogies would be the only obvious British feature.
Well looking at the pictures of the Chinese 25 series coaches the bogies don't look exactly like BT10s and the bodies look nothing like a mk3. They don't even look like the UIC gauge President of Gabon BREL coach which has mk3 windows and the distinctive mk3 ridged roof.
Gag Halfrunt
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Only the 25Os (for which I can't find any photos) and the 25As have any British design heritage.
hexagon789
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There were also Mk2-based metre guage coaches built by BREL for either Kenya or Tanzania I forget which.
class387
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Interesting. I've always thought the 25-series were based off the 22-series coaches, given how similar parts are.
For anyone interested, I've managed to find pictures of a RW25-O coach searching on Baidu. They do look a lot more British than the other 25-series coaches, which seem to be a combination of features from this and 22-series coaches:
Interesting stuff. Welcome to the forum Gag (how much do you charge for brain work these days?)
Gag Halfrunt
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The original 25-series carriages were homegrown, but imported types from Japan and Germany as well as the UK were classified as part of the series, and some features of those models were incorporated into later sub-types made in China. Perhaps 25-series should be thought of more as a standard, like UIC X or Z, rather than a specific model.
The livery on that 25-O looks like a cross between the BREL International Train and Network SouthEast.
dubscottie
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Cheers to the above posters for looking stuff up!
The bogies were a version of the BT10 but had most of the components outside the frame as loading gauge was not an issue.
I will try to dig out the old article but I think the deal was for a few UK built prototypes, and then for BREL to provide drawings, technical advice, tooling etc to China for mass production.
It was worth a few million ££ back then.
I should have made it clearer in the SA stock thread that while it was not the largest UK built order, it could be the biggest licence built order.
dubscottie
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Edit to the above. http://www.traintesting.com/images/Int coach with T4 bogies 53A Models 99519.jpg
The international stock was designed to be adapted to various widths, gauges etc. They could be made wider, longer, taller, longer, every variation you could think of. There was a Berne gauge prototype for Europe.
Like the Class 58, the International stock was designed for overseas sales.
The international stock was designed to be adapted to various widths, gauges etc. They could be made wider, longer, taller, longer, every variation you could think of. There was a Berne gauge prototype for Europe.
Like the Class 58, the International stock was designed for overseas sales.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That one looks like a parts-bin special - short vehicle, Mk3 body shape, UIC full drop windows and Asian style inward opening doors. Do you know what it was intended for?
Interestingly it was later used as as testbed for the Class 158 "Express Sprinter" livery.
Interestingly it was later used as as testbed for the Class 158 "Express Sprinter" livery.
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