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new tube? is it true?
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Honestly who would use a London underground forum I nearly died of heatstroke in one last year!
swt_passenger
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It’s definitely true. Siemens were awarded the contract over a year ago. We have a thread about it in the LU sub-forum, that’s the usual artists impression in all the press coverage.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ild-94-trains-for-the-piccadilly-line.165868/
Bromley boy
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Try telling that to passengers on the Piccadilly or Bakerloo lines!
Clearly spent very little time on the tube then. The Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines have stock that is 50% older than the oldest pacers, but travellers having to use them don't seem to have a chip on their shoulders.
sprinterguy
Established Member
I'm not sure why you would consider it a joke; yes Siemens have been awarded the initial contract to build 94 new tube trains for the Piccadilly line, expected to be followed by further orders for the Central, Bakerloo and Waterloo & City lines, totalling c.250 trains.
There's more information in this article:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-new-tube-trains-for-the-piccadilly-line/amp/
I'm not sure you recognise how extensive the London Underground network is with comments like that one: The new Siemens deep tube stock will be replacing stock of 1973 vintage on the Piccadilly line, significantly older than the Pacers and will be over 50 by the time they are replaced, starting in 2024.
Similarly the S stock introduced on the surface lines c.2012 replaced trains of 1962 - 1978 vintage, again a deal older than Pacers.
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bramling
Veteran Member
A stock - withdrawn at 52 years
C stock - withdrawn at 45 years
D stock - withdrawn at 39 years
59 stock - withdrawn at 40 years
62 stock - withdrawn at 33 years
67 stock - withdrawn at 45 years
72 stock - currently expected to be withdrawn at 63 years
73 still - still going at 45 years
And just to provide some balance
83 stock - withdrawn at 10 years
So, with one exception, this is hardly getting new trains all the time. Quite the opposite in fact, nearly every fleet has gone beyond the notional 35-40 year book life - in some cases considerably so. The 83 stock was a special case, a small fleet that was rendered surplus by the JLE, and that had various technical and design problems which gave an incentive to get rid of them prematurely.
Another case of reality check needed as an antidote to all those chips growing!
Bromley boy
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And 38 stock still going strong on the IOW!
Because we have had the good ol cattle carts for a long time
hooverboy
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sprinterguy
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Though as noted above by myself and others not nearly as long as most London Underground stock lasts before it is replaced.
The Piccadilly and Bakerloo line fleets that these new trains will start to replace in 5 years time will be over 50 years old by that point, being 10 - 15 years older than Pacers.
Yes there is a lot of ill-informed hysteria from northerners about new trains for the south.And I'm a northerner. However having said that, it doesn't matter how old the Pacers are: they were never fit for purpose in the first place, and should have been scrapped years ago. The ancient trains on the Bakerloo and Piccadilly, in contrast, were well designed and well built.
sprinterguy
Established Member
Now that I can fully agree with. LU stock is usually solidly built and hard-wearing to endure decades of intensive service, and designed to provide maximum capacity on specific lines. The Pacers were a cheap, lightweight, one-size-fits-all solution applied to urban and rural services alike.
While no doubt the cheapest fix to ensure the Provincial sector staggered into the nineties, they're hardly appropriate commuter trains for the 21st century and Northern Spirit, as was, should have leapt at the opportunity when Bombardier were touting the "Turbostar Traveller" concept (Essentially an early development of what ultimately emerged as the class 172, with faster acceleration and lightweight inside frame bogies) just after the turn of the millennium. That way, in a more ideal world the current tranche of new trains just now entering service to replace the Pacers would be beginning to replace the equally dated 150s instead and the Pacers would already be a distant memory.
bramling
Veteran Member
Hmm. You mean the trains where the brakes are so dodgy that the emergency position has to be used on a regular basis to get the train to stop in the right place (72 always been like that), or the stock where large numbers of the fleet have to be laid up in leaf-fall season (73 stock)?
Yes the LU stock have proven themselves to be capable of lasting a long time, however this is due to political factors.
In truth, the Picc has been crying out for an upgrade for much of this decade and beyond, with timetables having been thinned out since the 1990s as the infrastructure can’t deliver what they would like to provide, and there aren’t enough trains.
Oh, and the additional trains for the Jubilee and Northern lines have recently been cancelled.
Bromley boy
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Interesting.
How on Earth will the Northern line cope once the Battersea branch opens? It’s barely coping now!
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Please use the existing thread
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ild-94-trains-for-the-piccadilly-line.165868/
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ild-94-trains-for-the-piccadilly-line.165868/
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